1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Matthew 7:21 refutes Unconditional Election.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Mar 21, 2024.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,018
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 7:21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    The condition is to do the will of God the Father. 1 John 5:9-13.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus does NOT say, “the elect are those that do the will of My Father”

    The “condition” of doing the will of the Father refers to entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

    God elects some, unconditionally, for salvation and enables them to do the will of the Father through the power of God Holy Spirit, and they will, without fail, enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    All Glory to God! Come Lord Jesus!

    peace to you
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @canadyjd you have accused me of not understanding calvinism so these are serious questions. What I see in your post is your opinion but what is the biblical bases for it?

    I have wondered how you as a calvinist can actually know you are saved? By your own words God made you believe or I would say at least you think He did. Even the faith you say you have had to be given to you.

    Even Calvin said people could think they were saved but it was just a false faith that God gave them. How does one know that he is regenerate? The only true test is to persevere to the end. If one fails to persevere, that person only reveals that while he may have thought his faith was real, it was only a case of self deception, or even worse, divine deception.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Just to be clear, @Silverhair, I have no idea why you want to turn this thread into a personal conflict. Your statements come very close to denying I’m a believer.

    Your own words prove you don’t understand the doctrines of grace or what I believe.

    God didn’t “make me believe” and I have NEVER stated that God made me believe. So your statement is a fabrication, an untruth, a gross distortion of what I believe and what I have said which reflects your bias and hatred of the doctrines of grace.

    God enabled me to believe by the power of God Holy Spirit. God gave me faith. Even the disciples recognized this truth when they asked Jesus to increase their faith.

    If you understood reformed beliefs, you would understand that I know I am saved because God Holy Spirit indwells me and testifies with my spirit that I am a child of God. That is biblical, but I’ll let you look it up so maybe you will remember it.

    Finally, I have absolutely no need for a lecture on theology from someone who believes “many are saved having never heard the gospel”

    Quit trying to hijack this thread!!!

    peace to you
     
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Back to the OP.

    Matthew 7:21 does not refute unconditional election. “Election” is not even being discussed in this verse.

    Jesus says that those who do the will of God will see the Kingdom of Heaven. He does not say that those who do the will of God become the “elect”.

    peace to you
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So are you saying that those that are not found in Christ will see the Kingdom of Heaven?
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,018
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So what was Jesus claiming by "shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven?"
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,018
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does not identify what needs to be done to enter God's kingdom. "doeth the will?"
     
  9. MMDAN

    MMDAN New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2024
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When you consider the context of the verse you have to wonder exactly what "does the will of My Father" means to @canadyjd?

    How is that not a condition for entering the kingdom of heaven? And as @MMDAN has pointed out John 6:40 tells us what the will of the Father is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I explained it. The passage is not talking about “election”. Do you see Christ talking about “election” in this passsge?

    peace to you
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, you don’t have a clue, you continually distort what I say or simply fabricate beliefs and then expect me to waste cyber space correcting your nonsense.

    Last chance. Question my salvation one more time and I’ll report you.

    In fact, I’ll just report you now

    peace to you
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @canadyjd asking you to give a basis for your theology is not questioning your salvation. You say to just trust you and when I say give some evidence of your theology from scripture you get defensive. You should be able to provide it.

    I point out the errors of your theology using your own DoG and you get upset. Get over yourself and grow up. You seem to think that no one should question what you say. Wrong.

    When you claim views that do not align with scripture then expect to be challenged on it. Perhaps you have lived in your calvinist echo chamber to long. You do not even seem to recognize things that your calvinist view claim and then stomp your feet when I point out the logical outcome of that view.
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,543
    Likes Received:
    2,886
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ...lol...

    maybe some day everyone'll wise up and just stop talking to him...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Now KY why would you say that.

    I find it interesting that calvinists like to say that everyone else is wrong but can't stand it when the error of their view is pointed out to them.

    I have asked more than once for calvinists to provide clear contextual scripture that supports your view and it has not happened. Why is that KY?

    They say God is "absolutely totally sovereign" and then restrict what the sovereign God can do so is the calvinist God really sovereign?
     
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I will let the moderator decide if you have broken the rules by questioning my salvation

    peace to you
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,543
    Likes Received:
    2,886
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because it's true, you spew falsehoods.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,018
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ?
    Why not quote what is being said, that not true and why it is not true? And cite the Scripture that states the truth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When did I do that @canadyjd? You want me to accept your version of salvation and when I ask you to provide biblical support for it you claim I am saying your not saved.

    If someone asked me for biblical support for my view I could provide it and would not think they were saying I am not saved although that has been suggested more than once on this board.

    I used your own calvinist theology as the basis of my questions.so if you have a problem then it is with your theology not me. Why do you think your theological views are beyond being questioned?
     
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,974
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Back to the OP

    Matthew 7:31 does not refute unconditional election because it is not speaking of “election” at all.

    The OP assumes doing the will of God in order to see the Kingdom of Heaven is the same thing as “election”. It is not. These are two different things.

    “Election” occurs prior to salvation. Doing the will of God and entering the Kingdom of Heaven occurs after salvation.

    peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Loading...