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Featured "Maybe its real ,and I'm not Chosen "

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Sep 9, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    So either you aren't real
    Or I am just not chosen
    Maybe I'll never know
    Either way my heart is broken
    This is the lyrics from a well known, former professing Calvinist , singer song writer Derick Webb . Now self proclaimed 'reformed atheist ' .

    i think this video explains some of the issues with Calvinism / Lordship salvation. This is an interview with Derick Webb . I think what he says exposes some of the logical consequences of Calvinism and Lordship salvation .
    Starting about the 50 min mark onwards are the key parts . till about 102 min mark .
    Thoughts ?
     
    #1 Barry Johnson, Sep 9, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    So what’s your point?
     
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    that
    this video explains some of the issues with Calvinism / Lordship salvation. This is an interview with Derick Webb ,who is now an atheist/ agnostic but formerly a famous singer song writer, professing Calvinist. I think what he says exposes some of the logical consequences of Calvinism and Lordship salvation .
    thoughts?
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I’m not going to even view it
     
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  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    of course .
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    So, you are seeking theological clarity from a professing atheist?

    Do you think he might be biased?

    Peace to you
     
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  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Have you watched ? 'theological clarity ' ? of course not . Theological consequences maybe . I'm not suggesting Calvinsm is responsible for all false converts . Many remain and then later depart mamy non calvnist denomination s also ..I Just think there are some great teaching moments in this discussion . Including what I believe is contradictory and false about reformed teaching s is revealed unwittingly from an atheist who understands Calvinism quite well . Actually he understands calvnism better than some calvinists I know.
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’ll get my theology from scripture. I don’t need to watch someone deceived by satan explain why scripture is false.

    peace to you
     
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  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I suspect you haven’t read the OP.

    peace to you
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps if you were to interact with them more then you would learn more. You gotta admit that they at the very least are believers not atheists.
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    That's your perfect right .
     
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I try my best to understand and learn .
     
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Why do they identify themselves as atheists?

    Oh, now I get it. They are “reformed atheists”. They used to be atheists, but now they have embraced reformed theology.

    I stand corrected.

    edit to add: Oops, I take my “correction” back. In post #3, the OP claimed the person in the link identified as himself as atheist/agnostic.

    peace to you
     
    #13 canadyjd, Sep 9, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    It says they were reformed and Calvinists, now they are athiests
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Right. I don’t feel the need to seek the opinions of atheists about my theology. They have been deceived by satan.

    How did your effort to get me banned go?

    peace to you
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I don’t know ... I thought you were calling me an atheist. Never mind , your reference was to the atheists.
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    My friend. I consider you a brother in Christ with which I disagree with on some issues, but agree with on others. I enjoy our conversations, even when I get frustrated with your statements.

    I would never question your salvation or the salvation of anyone professing faith in Jesus.

    peace to you
     
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  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yea thanks, I’m sorry for douting you
     
  19. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    How could anyone that almost killed RC Sproul, whose books he'd read, not be not chosen? :Wink

    Seriously, it is unclear from that segment (the suggested ~50:00 to ~1:02:00) how his mind was tricked into believing there is no God.

    I understand he was a Calvinist. But he indicates presuppositionalism was his primary or exclusive method of apologetics. Is that also considered Calvinistic?

    He now claims the scientific method is his primary way of reasoning. Does that run counter to Calvinism?

    Is Calvinism an invitation to a blind leap of faith? He seemed to say so.

    And for the record, at least in that segment, I detected no attempt to convince others against God or Christ. He just says he's no longer a believer and briefly alludes to a couple of items that seemed to him to indicate Christianity isn't original. He "may have" his history all backward, twisted up, and inside out on that score.
     
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Webb replied to a Christian who tweeted him saying that he was sorry that Webb and others left the faith. The Christian said that if they ever decided to come back, the church is willing to receive them with open arms (referring to the prodigal son story in Luke 15:11-22). Webb responded graciously and kindly, tweeting,
    • “thanks, brandon. i receive that as an expression of care. respectfully, i feel the same way. i hope you can one day feel free of the need for a needless yoke, regardless of how light.” (7/27/19) - Derek Webb
    Referring to Jesus’s statement in Matthew 11:30 (“My yoke is easy, and my burden is light”), Webb stated that when he left the faith, he saw it as freeing himself from “a needless yoke, regardless of how light.”


    But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." [Romans 10:8-11 NKJV]

    Jesus is either your Lord and your Savior, or He is not.
    Derek did not want to be burdened with any Lord, so he has no Savior.

    Calvinist or Arminian, that equation adds up the same.
     
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