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Featured "Mere shadows" of what is to come

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alcott, May 19, 2020.

  1. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    From another thread which expired...

    "Merely shadows?" There should be no better way to answer that than this:

    Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ [Colossians 2:6-17].
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Your translation is off, as the koine Greek is plural, not singular, but never the less, consider the context, as we have before:



    Powerpoint of Parts 1 & 2 here - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Colossians-2vs16.pptx

    Please address this response.

    Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts. The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB], are always a Law of God, never an "ordinance".

    Colossians 2:14 - “ordinances”
    Ephesians 2:15 – “law of commandments contained in ordinances”
    Hebrews 9:1 – “ordinances of divine service”
    Hebrews 9:10 – “carnal ordinances”

    Colossians 2:16 – “in meat, or in drink” [offerings]
    Hebrews 9:10 – “meats and drinks” [offerings]

    Colossians 2:12 – “also ye are risen with him”
    Ephesians 2:6 – “raised us up together”

    Colossians 2:16 – “a shadow of things to come”
    Ephesians 2:7 – “in the ages to come”
    Hebrews 9:11 – “of good things to come”
    Hebrews 10:1 – “the law having a shadow of good things to come”, “those sacrifices”, “offered year by year”

    Hebrews 9:9 – “was a figure”
    Hebrews 9:23 – “the patterns”
    Hebrews 9:24 – “the figures”
    Hebrews 10:1 – “not the very image of the things”

    Colossians 2:2 – “riches”
    Colossians 2:3 – “treasures”
    Ephesians 2:7 – “riches”

    Colossians 2:11 – “of the flesh”
    Colossians 2:13 – “flesh”
    Ephesians 2:3 – “flesh ... the flesh”
    Ephesians 2:11 – “in the flesh”
    Ephesians 2:15 – “in his flesh”
    Hebrews 9:13 – “flesh”
    Hebrews 10:20 – “his flesh”

    Colossians 2:14 – “the handwriting of ordinances”
    Ephesians 2:15 – “the law of commandments contained in ordinances”
    Hebrews 9:19 – “Moses ... to the law ... blood ... book”
    Hebrews 9:22 – “by the law ... with blood”

    Colossians 2:11 – “putting off the body of the sins”
    Hebrews 9:26 – “put away sin”
    Hebrews 10:4 – “take away sins”
    Hebrews 10:9 – “He taketh away the first”​

    The immediate reference:

    “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” – Colossians 2:16

    “And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.” – Ezekiel 45:17

    [ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices, the context of Ezekiel 45 and its "ordinances" - see vs 14 for example]

    The "ordinances" of type:

    "ordinances" - Colossians 2:14 (like Passover)
    "carnal" [sacrifices] - Hebrews 9:10
    "worldly" - Hebrews 9:1
    "shadow" - Colossians 2:17
    "to come" [pointing to future, as type to antitype]- Colossians 2:16; Ephesians 2:17; Hebrews 9:11, 10:1​

    Now that is incomparable to the Ten Commandments, the eternal Law of God:

    "Ten Commandments", "Law of God" - Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4
    "spiritual" [all of it, obedience by faith and love] - Romans 7:14
    "heaven" - Exodus 20:22
    "light" - Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20, 51:4; Psalms 119:105
    "Remember" [memorial, past] - Exodus 20:8
     
  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Both Ezekiel and Colossians are following the same pattern as found throughout the whole Bible, beginning in Numbers 28-29:

    Leviticus 23:1-44, 25:1-22; Numbers 28:1-31; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14 (Isaiah, this is a unique, a parallelism within itself, case); Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16.

    Both Ezekiel and Colossians are following the same pattern as found throughout the whole Bible, beginning in Numbers 28-29:

    [1] daily

    [2] weekly [weekly sabbath never listed last]

    [3] monthly [sometimes seasonally]

    [4] seasonally [sometimes monthly]

    [5] yearly​

    Again, following Numbers 28:


    [1] daily

    Numbers 28:1-8 KJB, is the “continual” or “day by day” offerings, aka 'the daily'.​

    [2] weekly

    Numbers 28:9-10 KJB, is the “every sabbath” on “the sabbath day”, which is the weekly 7th day Sabbath offerings.

    It states “the sabbath day”, and “every sabbath”, literally “sabbath to sabbath” [Numbers 28:10 HOT Translit. - olat shaBat B'shaBaTô al-olat haTämiyd w'niš'KäH š, which is similar to Isaiah 66:23 HOT Translit. - w'häyäh miDëy-chodesh B'chäd'shô ûmiDëy shaBät B'shaBaTô yävô khäl-Bäsär l'hish'Tacháwot l'fänay ämar y'hwäh].​

    [3] monthly [sometimes seasonally]

    Numbers 28:11-15 KJB, is the “beginnings of your months”, and “every month”, or monthly offerings.​

    [4] seasonally [sometimes monthly]

    Numbers 28:16-25 KJB is the “in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD” and “in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread”, which is the seasonal feast of Passover and of unleavened bread of the spring, and would be the spring seasonal offering, or even the first feast of the religious year offering.

    Numbers 28:26-31 KJB is the “in the day of the firstfruits” and “after your weeks”, or the seasonal wavesheaf offering along with Pentecost [feast of weeks], which basically closes the seasonal spring feasts.

    Numbers 29:1-6 KJB continues them of the seasonal feasts “in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets”, which is the seasonal fall feast of Trumpets and its offerings.

    Numbers 29:7-11 KJB is the “have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein”, “of atonement”, or the seasonal fall feast of the day of atonement offering.

    Numbers 29:12-40 KJB is the “on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days”, which is the final seasonal fall feast of booths/ingathering/tabernacles offerings.​

    [5] yearly

    Numbers 28:16-31, 29:1-40 [see also Leviticus 23 & 25] KJB refers to each of the yearly sabbaths, which completes the full offerings in the year.​

    Same pattern throughout:

    “Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.” – Galatians 4:10 KJB

    [1] daily

    [2] weekly [not present in the text]

    [3] monthly

    [4] seasonally [καιρους, times]

    [5] yearly​

    [notice the absence of the words “sabbath”, “seventh” and “week” in this text]​

    “I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.” – Hosea 2:11 KJB

    [1] daily [her mirth; Nehemiah 8:2]

    [2] weekly [not present in the text]

    [3] seasonally [her feasts]

    [4] monthly [her new moons]

    [5] yearly [her sabbaths]​

    “And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.” – Ezekiel 45:17 KJB

    [1] daily [meat, drink offerings]

    [2] weekly [not present in the text]

    [3] seasonally [in the feasts]

    [4] monthly [in the new moons]

    [5] yearly [in the sabbaths]​
     
  4. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Albert Barnes [Presbyterian]:

    “... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...”​

    Adam Clarke [Methodist]:

    “... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...”​

    Jamieson, Fausset and Brown [theologians]:


    “... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...”​

    Justin Edwards [Congregationalist]:

    “… A holy-day-sabbath-days; in the original, a festival-sabbaths. The days referred to are those required to be observed in the ceremonial law-days associated by God with meats, drinks, and new moons. The passage does not refer to the Sabbath of the moral law, associated with the commands forbidding theft, murder, and adultery. This weekly Sabbath was never against men or contrary to them, but was always for them, and promotive of their highest good. The observance of it caused them to ride upon the high places of the earth, and to possess the heritage of God’s people. Isaiah 58:13-14; Jeremiah 17:21-27. …”​

    “And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for [the] man, and not man for the sabbath:” – Mark 2:27 KJB

    Therefore, how could it ever be “against” the man [Adam]?
     
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Does Colossians 2:16 speak of “the sabbath” [singular, definite] or “sabbaths, sabbath days” [plural]?

    Col 2:16 GNT TR μη ουν τις υμας κρινετω εν βρωσει η εν ποσει η εν μερει εορτης η νουμηνιας η σαββατων

    Col 2:16 GNT TR with Strong’s #’s/Robinsons Morpological Analysis Codes μηG3361 PRT-N ουνG3767 CONJ τιςG5100 X-NSM υμαςG4771 P-2AP κρινετωG2919 V-PAM-3S ενG1722 PREP βρωσειG1035 N-DSF ηG2228 PRT ενG1722 PREP ποσειG4213 N-DSF ηG2228 PRT ενG1722 PREP μερειG3313 N-DSN εορτηςG1859 N-GSF ηG2228 PRT νουμηνιαςG3561 N-GSF ηG2228 PRT σαββατωνG4521 N-GPN

    σαββατωνG4521 N-GPN

    N – Noun

    G – Genative (possession, “of”)

    P – Plural

    N – Neuter ​

    Colossians 2:16 speaks of plural, “sabbath days” (or 'of sabbaths').

    The context, is also not concerned with all 'sabbaths' but is limited in scope, to that which is “shadow” (not light a God’s Ten Commandments, not body or substance), that which is “of things to come” (type pointing to the future events) and of carnal “ordinances” (not God’s spiritual Law), as follows:

    [1] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), was given to mankind (Adam) before the sin of mankind (Mark 2:27), before the need of shadow and type, which were given after the sin of mankind, under the Levitical priesthood.

    [2] The Sabbath of the LORD the God, is a memorial (pointing backwards, through the word “Remember” (Exodus 20:8)), to a perfect world without sin, perfect relationship, perfect rest), and is not pointing to the future.

    [3] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is singular and specific. “The seventh day” “the sabbath” “of the LORD thy God”.

    Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Exodus 20:8 HOT - זכור את־יום השׁבת לקדשׁו׃
    Exodus 20:9 HOT - שׁשׁת ימים תעבד ועשׂית כל־מלאכתך׃
    Exodus 20:10 HOT - ויום השׁביעי שׁבת ליהוה אלהיך לא־תעשׂה כל־מלאכה אתה ובנך־ובתך עבדך ואמתך ובהמתך וגרך אשׁר בשׁעריך׃
    Exodus 20:11 HOT - כי שׁשׁת־ימים עשׂה יהוה את־השׁמים ואת־הארץ את־הים ואת־כל־אשׁר־בם וינח ביום השׁביעי על־כן ברך יהוה את־יום השׁבת ויקדשׁהו׃

    Exodus 20:8 HOT Translit. - zäkhôr et-yôm haSHaBät l'qaD'shô
    Exodus 20:9 HOT Translit. - shëshet yämiym Taávod w'äsiytä Käl-m'lakh'Tekhä
    Exodus20:10 HOT Translit. - w'yôm haSH'viyiy shaBät layhwäh éloheykhä lo-taáseh khäl-m'läkhäh aTäh ûvin'khä-ûviTekhä av'D'khä waámät'khä ûv'hem'Tekhä w'gër'khä ásher Bish'äreykhä
    Exodus 20:11 HOT Translit. - Kiy shëshet-yämiym äsäh y'hwäh et-haSHämayim w'et-hääretz et-haYäm w'et-Käl-ásher-Bäm waYänach BaYôm haSH'viyiy al-Kën Bërakh' y'hwäh et-yôm haSHaBät way'qaD'shëhû š​

    [4] The weekly 7th day, cyclical, Sabbath of the LORD is separate from the yearly festal sabbaths, as denoted in Leviticus 23 (see Leviticus 23:3; then see Leviticus 23:4,38 "beside the sabbaths of the LORD")

    [5] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is called:

    the sabbath of the LORD” (Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and

    My sabbaths” (Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:20),​

    as opposed to theirs,

    called “your sabbaths” (Leviticus 26:34,35), and

    her sabbaths” (Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 26:31; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11), etc.​

    [6] Colossians 2, in its entire context says nothing about “the seventh day”, but speaks of merely the shadow sabbaths (plural, not singular), and says nothing of “commandment” (as Luke 23:54,56 does), but speaks of worldly “ordinances” (Colossians 2:14,20).

    [7] Colossians 2, speaks of “sins” (Colossians 2:13), which is “transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly (and of years) sabbaths are not given in the Ten Commandments at all.
     
  6. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    NEW LIGHT ON CEREMONIAL SABBATHS AND COLOSSIANS 2:16

    An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).

    Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,

    • festival - yearly Sabbaths,
    • a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
    • or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
    CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.

    When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:

    "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."

    Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",

    • days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Col. 2)
    • months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Col. 2)
    • seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Col. 2)
    • and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)

    *Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy day, including the Sabbath.

    The Sabbath & Sunday

    The apostle Paul exhorts the Colossians not to allow others to “judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ” (emphases mine). Just prior to this statement, Paul declares that God has “canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross” (Col. 2.14). This is Paul’s basis for telling his readers not to give in to those condemning them for not observing the weekly Sabbath and other Jewish holy days. The official position of the Adventist Church, however, states that “the sabbaths here referred to are the ceremonial sabbaths of the Jewish annual festivals,” not the Sabbath of the Decalogue (Ministerial Association 254). Ratzlaff argues against this interpretation by noting that “when these ritual laws of the old covenant [are] mentioned together [in the Old Testament], never are the seasonal feasts called ‘sabbaths,’ leaving the word ‘Sabbath’ for the seventh-day Sabbath to avoid confusion” (192). Greg Taylor, formerly a Seventh-day Adventist pastor and author of Discovering the New Covenant, points out that the “same construction [yearly, monthly, weekly] is found in ascending or descending order repeatedly throughout the Old Testament” and in those instances (see 1 Ch. 23.30-31, 2 Ch. 2.4, Ne. 10.32-33, Hos. 2.11-12, Eze. 45.17) “’sabbaths’ […] always refer to the weekly Sabbath” (68-69).

    Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - New Covenant Sabbath Rest
     
  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    (I take it back, wasn't worth saying, apologies) So, hi, haven't seen ya in a while.
     
    #7 Alofa Atu, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, about him. I desired that he answers my emails to him or his 'ministry', on anything. (edited, seems better stated this way, apologies)
     
    #8 Alofa Atu, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  9. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Nehemiah 8:2 reference is a typo, should read, Nehemiah 8:12 "mirth" in connection with daily (context).
     
  10. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    Hey, the false teacher is still here! Cheap shot about the accounts, but it's to be expected from you. The two accounts were a mix up.
     
  11. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    Some people know when they are wasting their time beating a dead horse, but proudly chalk it up for victory if you wish. You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on the Baptist Board.
     
  12. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. How ya been? Haven't seen ya round in awhile. What are you doing during this plandemic?
     
  13. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    I've been good. Church service and small group Bible study continue online and my wife and I have been staying away from crowds and have gotten back to the basics when it comes to socializing with others.
     
  14. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    How do you do the online, youtube, facebook, etc? What is your present Bible study?
     
  15. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    Church sermons are through YouTube and small group Bible study is through Zoom. Our present Bible study (and we are just finishing up) covers encouragement in hard times and overcoming doubt in a crisis.
     
  16. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Hey mailmandan, just want to say, while I have the time to say it (who knows how much time is left these days, can't be much as time goes), I know I probably have given you a hard time in the past, and more than likely overstepped the bounds of discussion (you'd have to tell me whether it was so, and I'll accept it, conversations can sometimes be heated to the point where the point is lost and personalities become involved) during those times, but even so, know that though I disagree with some of the doctrine you espouse, I do not desire to be unkind, or uncharitable to you, or to bring you to think that I do not love you (and wife, included, please say "Hello" for me) as it is in Christ Jesus.

    So, please allow me to say while time lasts, please forgive me for anything that has not been in character with Jesus. Seriously and with all sincerity. That includes anything in this thread to this point. My last reply was not to try to goad, so much as to give a pinch of (human) love to ya (teased too far it seems). I don't see the same faces like I used to so much any more, and it causes me to wonder, "What ever happened to them ..." (I was re-reading the history of D.M.Canright again, and it is bringing me to thinking more about how I ought to treat those who disagree ...)

    God knows (specifically) what happens next (though I understand generally), and I desire to have all things straight with all whom I can before we all meet our Maker face to face.

    Though I know you disagree with me (us) on certain things, I hope that as people claiming to be in Christ Jesus and following Him, we all know that Jesus died for every last one of us (you, me and them (whomever they are)).

    I know that Jesus died for you and your wife, and even the Baptists of this board (yes, even the Salty ones (Heya Salty).

    Well, sorry mailmandan for anything taken out on you, and for things that weren't of Jesus' character. By God's grace, I shall love you as God loves you.

    [PS edited my posts, but feel free to leave my original quotes in your replies if you desire, for I am not ashamed of my apology]
     
    #16 Alofa Atu, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  17. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Are the sermons live on Youtube, or just pre-recorded and then posted? I just found out about Zoom myself, and have used it rather recently with those in Australia, and a few others.

    What 3 texts are the top ones you have chosen for encouragement, and same 3 for overcoming doubt? I would think the Psalms are the best places, but not always, so what did you go with?
     
  18. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    The sermons are initially live (if you log on when they first start) and after that you are watching the recording. Off the top of my head, we went through 1 Thessalonians 3; James 1:2-5; 1 Peter 4:12 in encouragement in hard times and Romans 8:37-39; Philippians 4:6-7; Hebrews 13:5 for overcoming doubt. We also covered multiple verses in Psalms, along with Proverbs 3:5-6.
     
  19. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Good texts. Just went through them as you gave them.

    I really like Hebrews 13:5

    Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.​

    God showed me one day as I read it, that the context in that verse of "such things ... [we] have" is in the latter part of the verse, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." A question came to mind. What do we truly have? We have Jesus Christ! Therefore, why be covetous of anything else, when everything of value is in Him.
     
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  20. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    The NASB and the NET both render "things" plural and "shadow" singular. As to the rest of your cut&paste gobbledygook, I don't read it and I doubt if anybody else does. I doubt if even you and marysson read each other's c&p.
     
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