Mistakes, lies, false witness,and such sins..

I forgot about pen pals.

You bring up very good points. This is why I may argue some but when it comes to a serious debate I only engage via email.

When we watch live debates we are seeing who has the best live argument (not the best position). But with email you read and study the opposing view and reason out a response by looking carefully at your own view. For me it is most about doctrine (letters would be the same).

Online forums are at an almost live pace without the advantages of live correspondence. They are written like email but without the advantage of contemplation.

 

Hi Iconoclast

Good question. I am not talking about discussing our opinions or interpretations.

My words were in context to holding other people to our preferred practices and ideas. For example, I try to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition (it bothers me). But it is acceptable. I should not call into question people who do (the context was that people should not edit or delete posts).

I do not like seeing posts by people who post without knowing how to properly use the quote features. To me it demonstrates laziness. But that is my personal impression (some may not understand how the feature works, may struggle with technology, ect.). I would never argue these people are actually lazy (I would argue they should learn to operate the media they use so as to better facilitate communication).

Does that make sense?

I was not talking about doctrine but about imposing personal practices and ideas on other people.

 

Considering your post, I wonder how often Christians sin because they have misinterpreted another's words, actions, or intentions and attack the other with malice unbefitting a child of God.

Perhaps this is why Scripture tells us how to deal with other people. It seems to me that too often Christians toss out God when they feel they have been affronted or are offended (the exact time Christians are told to respond in love and without malice is the time they respond with hatred).

It is easy to get along when you are getting along. Perhaps the test Christian character is getting along through disagreement.

For example, let's use the illustration in the OP. Let's say @McCree79 hit the follow button on a conversation by @Iconoclast in tap-talk. Suppose @Iconoclast confronted @McCree79 of following him and @McCree79 denied tracking him. If Iconoclast continually insists @McCree79 is lying then is @Iconoclast sinning in how he addresses McCree's accidental and unknown use of a tap-talk feature by holding malace against him? Would each not be convinced that the other is lying? Who would be making the false accusation? @McCree79, who is not actually following @Iconoclast but hit the button in tapa-talk or @Iconoclast since @McCree79 is not lying?

(@Iconoclast & @McCree79, just using you two as an illustration because of the tapa-talk comment)

These discussions remind me of a contemporary moral issues class.

 

The term “preaching to the choir” means to pointlessly try to convince a person or group to accept an opinion that they already hold.

My experience with people on this forum is that they are honest (sometimes to a fault) and tell others exactly what they believe.

But disagreement does not mean dishonest. Sometimes it seems that people mistakenly believe that anyone who disagrees with them are against them. That is typically not the case. People can confuse doctrine with persons (the held belief with the person who holds the belief).

If you think that there are people intentionally lying on this forum then perhaps you may want to reevaluate your own perceptions. When we deal with others within this type of communication it is impossible to judge motives. If you have somehow arrived at a moral conclusion regarding the intentions of members then you can rest assured that you are making assumptions. What we think has no bearing on the reality of any given situation.

In the example I offered earlier (of @McCree79 hitting "follow" on tapatalk), the belief that McCree is a liar does not make him a liar.The one in the wrong is the one considering himself the victim while unknowingly making false accusations.

Everyone is not a Christian. I doubt when we look at any given church that every person sitting in the pews is saved. But we cannot see into the hearts of others. We deal with sin, and in churches we exercise "church discipline". On this forum, when people violate the rules or post questionable content or in a questionable manner people can report it to the administrators.

I believe the best measure we have to determine whether or not we should consider someone as a Christian is how their behavior measures up to how we are told to live our lives. Does that person keep a "record of wrong", show malice towards other people, reply hatefully, etc.? Or do they post in love, dismiss wrongs, try to build up rather than tear down, etc.? We deal with behavior, not hearts. For all we are in Christ, we are not God.

 

I cannot answer for John and Rob. Your illustration is unrealistic and much too broad. I doubt any Christian would accept Mormonism, deal with only one member on a forum, ect. But I will try to interact as best I can.

The reason I use the "follow" button is to restrict those who can PM me (on another forum). That's the only thing I could think of (without tapa-talk I do not think it would track posts).

Maybe John was sending a PM to Rob so he was following him.

I guess I'd tell Rob not to take online discussion boards so seriously. If he does not want people to read his posts then he should not post.

If Rob is a Mormon then I think John can witness to him but only in the context it is allowed on the forum. I am a member of a poetry and literature forum and that would be against the rules while using the site. I do not think that Mormonism is Christian, so the illustration has no pull on me either way (Rob could be an atheist and my answer would be the same).

I think John could witness appropriately to Rob via PM, that is if Rob was willing to discuss the topic. Either way John should respect Rob's beliefs (not Mormonism but the fact that Mormonism is what Rob believes). When we are combative and disrespect other people we can never truly communicate.

Or maybe John knows Rob, they were romantically involved years ago and Rob has not yet realized who he is dealing with.

 

New topic - Fun with Rob and John.

I do not even know why I am being asked. I know some about Mormonism (enough to know they are not Christian), but not much. I'm just learning about the "follow" button.

Kinda a strange conversation but what the heck. John needs help dealing with Rob so I'll do my best.

Go Clemson!!!!!

 

Back to the OP:

The idea Christians who disagree are liars spreading false accusations is not correct. They may be spreading error in terms of doctrine but they are not guilty of lies.

@Iconoclast is a Calvinist. Many are not. Those who share their non-Calvinist beliefs are not liars bearing false witness. We may view one another as making a mistake in interpretation but it is not fair to say they are lying. This is a discussion board and people are going to disagree over doctrine.

Mormonism is a false religion. But that does not mean Mormons are liars or guilty of bearing false witness.

 

Sorry, with the introduction of Mormonism I thought you were going in a different direction. I misunderstood your point (I have no clue what you are taking about).

The examples you use seem to be extreme. To me your point is lost in the illustrations. I very seriously doubt anyone has ever followed people to other forums or posted to just one person on the forum. I doubt any Christian would affirm Mormon doctrine.

If you are asking if Christians make mistakes they do. If you are asking if Christians should lie or make false accusations against other people (Christian or not) they shouldn't.

But these are very basic Christian doctrines. I am not sure what you are asking.

Is there someone spreading Mormon doctrine here? If so, report it and we can deal with it as needed.

 

@Iconoclast,

I re-read this thread when I got home (especially your last few posts).

It looks as if it is a "strawman thread" addressing hypothetical actions that either have never occurred or at least have nothing to do with members here. We do not even have a Mormon membership. It does not appear that members here are liars, although sometimes things get heated and people disagree. I have not observed anyone addressing only one other member.

If you are having issues on another forum then perhaps that forum is the most appropriate to deal with them. If someone is acting inappropriately then the administration on that forum can ban them or at least warn them to correct their behavior. Point out that you are the only person the guy has engaged and explain why you believe it a concern (or just ask the person why he has only engaged you and ignored the rest of the forum).

That said, if Mormons are accepted on your other forum then I suppose they have a right to be there. You seem to be seeking advice, but all that I can give is maintain a Christ-like attitude towards these people while rejecting Mormon doctrine.

I hope that helps.

 

I am not doubting your experience and am sorry you had to go through such hurtful things (I assume on a Christian board).

I do know how you feel. I have also encountered believers who were less than Christ like in their behavior. But what I have found is that in Christ we can forgive those who we believe have wronged us. When we consider the blood shed for us, that while we were sinners Christ died for us, it makes perceived wrongs against us pale to nothing in comparison.

I learned long ago not to provide feedback without knowing the other side of the story, and even then it is rarely advisable. I can take you at your word, that at least you believe your report to be true.

But I am sure your Mormon "opponent" sees things differently. Perhaps the issue is a difference in understanding associatedwwith LDS doctrine? You are assuming an intent you cannot know. I cannot even hazard a guess at the other guy's motives and it would be wrong of me to try. .

All I can say is you cannot let the actions of others (whether real or just perceived) control your life.

 

How I deal with people who lie about me is I remind myself that while we were sinners Christ died for us. I try to remember that I am commanded to forgive (even my enemies) and not to keep a "record of wrongs".

The answer is that there is no difference between the Christian who lies and the Christian who keeps a record of it. Both are mired in sin, disobedient, and in need of repentance.

I hope that better addresses your question.