1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Monument Contemplation

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Van, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why not address my view, rather than manufacture a strawman distortion to knock down? We can all be duped, and invest ourselves in a culture or view that misses the mark. But when our mistake comes to light, we need to recognize our error and change our thinking. How about Robert E. Lee led many of our Confederate soldiers to their needless death in defense of the abomination that was slavery. Sorta puts the man sitting on Traveler in his true light.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Now why would the deniers want to change the subject from the needless monuments to my limited knowledge? As Christ died to make men holy, let us die to make men free... His truth is marching on.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,628
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That was your argument against my post (I recognized slavery as well as a host of other issues....which you concluded were merely fabrications of my culture). So no, he is not being disingenuous at all.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    JonC, please refer to the post where I misrepresented your view. It true I will correct it. I try to present the truth.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,628
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am not accusing you of misrepresenting my view. I claimed that the war was over issues that included not only slavery but a host of other factors. You disagreed, which is perfectly fine as it gave us an argument.

    You have my apology if it appeared I was suggesting you misrepresented my view as my intent was to challenge your argument, not your integrity.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lots of people engaged in the war effort on both sides, all with different reasons or a differing mix of reasons. My view is that Slavery was the primary cause, and I have spent many hours actually studying the issue.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,628
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with @Van that people had many reasons for fighting the Civil War. Reading soldier's letters from the era it seems to me the primary reason individuals fought was a sense of allegiance to their state, home or communities. But beyond that, I believe the many issues that came to divide the North and South over four decades manifested itself in the issue of slavery.
     
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You actually accuse others of changing the subject?
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hours studying? Wow. Impressive.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More insults and no discussion of the topic.
    Whereas your approach seems to be to hide ignorance with insult. Not impressive or worthwhile.

    Folks, returning to the topic, replacing the needless monuments of Confederates with monuments teaching the abomination of slavery took the lives of many Americans, North and South, black and white would be a good thing.
     
  11. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Let me see, it would be ok for me to change your "no" to "yes" and put it in quotes to present it as your statement?
    But two wrongs do not make a right.
     
  13. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do whatever you like, but above all else...

    Stop whining.

    Talk about being disingenuous, I haven't seen anybody here say the Civil War was not about slavery at all.

    You got the response you deserved.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Once in boot camp, in our barracks, a commotion occurred and a group of solders grabbed a fellow boot and were dragging him to the back. I will never forget the thief's protest, "he left the wallet on his bunk so he deserved to have it stolen." Now, more than 50 years later, I hear another protest, Van deserved to have his view misrepresented. Go figure.

    We can all be duped, and invest ourselves in a culture or view that misses the mark. But when our mistake comes to light, we need to recognize our error and change our thinking. How about Robert E. Lee led many of our Confederate soldiers to their needless death in defense of the abomination that was slavery. Perhaps puts the man sitting on Traveler in his true light
     
  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A fact for which I earlier asked you to provide: date of signing of Emancipation Proclamation?
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hi Reynolds, the war was not started with the Emancipation Proclamation, it was started when the slave states left the union after Lincoln's election because they thought that was the only way to preserve slavery.

    Returning to topic, replacing the needless monuments of Confederates with monuments teaching the abomination of slavery took the lives of many Americans, North and South, black and white would be a good thing.

    In my lifetime, smoking was viewed as an appropriate activity. It was not a sin. I carried a pack of cigarettes in my shirt pocket in church. People would light up right after leaving the service. But we changed. I have not smoked in more than 30 years, but my daughter, who grew up with a smoking dad, smokes to this day. My sinful imprint!

    And not to put to fine a point on it, but slavery was just as sinful as smoking, andt its imprint still fostered by monuments, continues to harm us all.
     
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You always seem to get facts wrong. You said "the slave states." Some of the slave states is factually accurate.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,628
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You rightly and strongly acknowledged that slavery was not the only issue of the Civil War.

    Why do you believe that, since slavery was not the only issue of the Civil War, Confederate monuments are monuments to slavery? How does the imprint of slavery continue to harm us all, and how will removing these monuments remove this imprint?
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,153
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hi JonC, this thread is evidence of continuing harm today.
    Slavery was the primary cause of the civil war.
    Replacing the Confederate monuments with those showing the advocates of human rights would not eliminate the imprint of slavery, but it would be a step in that direction.

    Here is short list of replacement monuments
    George Lee
    Lamar Smith
    Willie Edwards Jr
    William Lewis Moore
    Medgar Evers
    Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson and Cynthia Wesley
    James Earl Chaney
    , Andrew Goodman and Michael Henry Schwerner
    Viola Gregg Liuzzo,
    Mark Twain
    Harriet Beecher Stowe
     
Loading...