Moral Fiber of US Not Hurt By Torture....

poncho · May 1, 2009

steaver said: ↑

Dodge? I answered the question. Did you see the "No".

:jesus:
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Did you see I edited my post?

steaver · May 1, 2009

poncho said: ↑

Did you see I edited my post?
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Yes :thumbs:

God Bless you brother! :wavey:

poncho · May 2, 2009

Those who oppose the use of EIT [Enhanced Interrogation Techniques] claim that to use EIT would cause this nation to lose moral footing, integrity and credibility before nations around the world.
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This nation has already lost it's moral footing. Haven't you noticed?

I say too bad. There will always be a notebook full of names and nations that hate America, regardless of our stance on EIT. America's moral fiber is being judged and damaged by things of more importance than whether we water-board a few terrorists, to protect the masses that live in America.
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I'm confused...is a person considered a "terrorist" before or after he/she is found guilty in court of law?

Here's the social kicker, my friends....the killing of babies and the use of stew cells for medical research is by far more important to our moral standing than water-boarding a handful of non-military detainees, who, by the way, are not covered by the Geneva Convention because they did not wear the uniforms of their countries. According to law, to be caught out of uniform during warfare is worthy of a shooting squad. However, as of now, none of these guys have been taken out back at Gitmo and shot dead. Isn't that a strange turn-of-events?
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Very few have been found guilty of any crimes either. I thought in the USA you were innocent until proven guilty. You don't seem to have much use for due process. Oh that's right...they aren't in the USA, a legal loophole? Or an excuse for criminal acts by the state?

Any Way, the argument that our moral standing amongst the nations of this world is poor argument none-the-less, and in truth, it is nothing but an attempt to pull us off stride as we march forward in this war against terror.
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So let me get this straight. You are all for using EIT's on anyone who either you or the state labels a terrorist suspect whether this person may be guilty or not. Right? You would take away the rights of another human being in order to subject them to these "EIT's".

To those here in America that say we need to stop the EIT and act responsibly, is nothing more than a smoke-screen on behalf of those old "bleeding heart liberals" from the W's. When I am left to chose which moral dilemma is the one that needs our immediate attention, I am left with the mass extinction of innocent babies still living safely within the wombs of their mothers.
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Doesn't look to me that you are that much different than the "bleeding heart liberals" you're railing agiainst. You and these "liberals" both seem to be very fleet of foot when it comes to taking the rights of another to further some great collective cause.

Maybe if this nation was truly worried about our national efforts to put us on moral high ground, we'd start with putting an immediate end to the fetal genocide going on in hospitals and medical clinics offering abortion to every female [and their male companion -known, or not known] who failed to utilize the myriad of available techniques available to prevent the conception of a an unwanted child-to-be.
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This nation isn't worried about any moral highground. Turn on the TV to any channel, do you see people worried about moral highground? No you see people worried about whether or not Britney Spear's hair will grow back and who's the best performer on American Idol.

Before we close Gitmo, let's close those abortion clinics. Let's put an end to senseless holocaust of baby killings. If we can move to the top of moral high ground by ending abortion, then we have the right to tackle the issue of torture. By the way, these thugs have taken up the cause of radical Islam's attempt to abort as many American living citizens as possible. Terrorists want us dead, fetuses only want the opportunity to make it into this world and get a chance to be a part of this wonderful gift we call life!
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To say nothing of the Malthusian elite who preach (through their conglomerated media empires) that we humans are akin to a virus and are overpopulating and hurting the earth. "Terrorists" haven't bought up all the channels of communications to broadcast their conditioning into our minds. A handful of powerful men have.

I ask which horror facing our moral high ground has more impact on how we'll be judged by the world [and God on judgment day]: Water-boarding a few non-military thugs who hate Americans, or, knocking off a few million babies each year? As bad as EIT may seem to some of you, it shouldn't be nothing more than a minor blip on the radar screen of human atrocities. Americans can stop EIT and gain that feel good tingling all over their body, but if we go on ignoring the real problem [Killing babies, and using stem cells for research purposes], we will be guilty of the worst kind of moral sin against mankind.
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You still seem to be ignoring the real problem while blaming others for the same. Abortion is just another population control tool. You can go after the "bleeding heart liberals", all the abortion clinics and doctors in the world but until you stop the "message" being broadcast by that small group of media owners, yes the same folks who put the presidents in office, sway foreign policy and control the worlds resources you aren't going to see any lasting change.

Oh you may get some "feel good tingling" all over your body for a minute but the "message" of overpopulation and "humans are killing the earth" will continue to poison the minds of the young, as well as the more "mature" crowd amongst us.

So, what do you gain if you stop EIT and allow abortion to continue, inchecked? What you gain is absolutely NOTHING! Sure, you may save a few thugs from being tortured, but you gain nothing because you turned your collective heads and merely winked at the abortion clinics; promising each other that someday you'll go after the real culprit: abortion and stem cell research....what a bunch of bunk!
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Why don't you go after the real culprits instead of wasting time chasing all the "useful idiots" around in circles. You're never going to chop down a tree by attacking the leaves. Are you one of those gatekeeprs RR2? I mean a gatekeeper is a person who will ignore the real problem the root cause if you will and blab on and on about the symptoms while ignoring the disease itself altogether. Keeping people's minds off the real culprits (protecting them IOW) while only pointing the finger at those who have themselves been duped by the real culprits.

I mean if you were really that interested in curing the abortion problem shouldn't you be focusing on the few people most responsible for it instead of the millions of "useful idiots" who don't know any better?

blackbird · May 2, 2009

It may be a little off topic but

During WW2-------I believe the year was early '45

There was a unit of the 90th Army Divison(United States) who had surrendered to the Krauts who in turn---------opened fire on the surrendered unit killing them all

When the American units found out ---------- well -------- lets just say that "some" American units stopped taking German prisoners --- the Krauts paid dearly!!!!

JustChristian · May 2, 2009

righteousdude2 said: ↑

Those who oppose the use of EIT [Enhanced Interrogation Techniques] claim that to use EIT would cause this nation to lose moral footing, integrity and credibility before nations around the world.

I say too bad. There will always be a notebook full of names and nations that hate America, regardless of our stance on EIT. America's moral fiber is being judged and damaged by things of more importance than whether we water-board a few terrorists, to protect the masses that live in America.

Here's the social kicker, my friends....the killing of babies and the use of stew cells for medical research is by far more important to our moral standing than water-boarding a handful of non-military detainees, who, by the way, are not covered by the Geneva Convention because they did not wear the uniforms of their countries. According to law, to be caught out of uniform during warfare is worthy of a shooting squad. However, as of now, none of these guys have been taken out back at Gitmo and shot dead. Isn't that a strange turn-of-events?

Any Way, the argument that our moral standing amongst the nations of this world is poor argument none-the-less, and in truth, it is nothing but an attempt to pull us off stride as we march forward in this war against terror.

To those here in America that say we need to stop the EIT and act responsibly, is nothing more than a smoke-screen on behalf of those old "bleeding heart liberals" from the W's. When I am left to chose which moral dilemma is the one that needs our immediate attention, I am left with the mass extinction of innocent babies still living safely within the wombs of their mothers.

Maybe if this nation was truly worried about our national efforts to put us on moral high ground, we'd start with putting an immediate end to the fetal genocide going on in hospitals and medical clinics offering abortion to every female [and their male companion -known, or not known] who failed to utilize the myriad of available techniques available to prevent the conception of a an unwanted child-to-be.

Before we close Gitmo, let's close those abortion clinics. Let's put an end to senseless holocaust of baby killings. If we can move to the top of moral high ground by ending abortion, then we have the right to tackle the issue of torture. By the way, these thugs have taken up the cause of radical Islam's attempt to abort as many American living citizens as possible. Terrorists want us dead, fetuses only want the opportunity to make it into this world and get a chance to be a part of this wonderful gift we call life!

I ask which horror facing our moral high ground has more impact on how we'll be judged by the world [and God on judgment day]: Water-boarding a few non-military thugs who hate Americans, or, knocking off a few million babies each year? As bad as EIT may seem to some of you, it shouldn't be nothing more than a minor blip on the radar screen of human atrocities. Americans can stop EIT and gain that feel good tingling all over their body, but if we go on ignoring the real problem [Killing babies, and using stem cells for research purposes], we will be guilty of the worst kind of moral sin against mankind.

So, what do you gain if you stop EIT and allow abortion to continue, inchecked? What you gain is absolutely NOTHING! Sure, you may save a few thugs from being tortured, but you gain nothing because you turned your collective heads and merely winked at the abortion clinics; promising each other that someday you'll go after the real culprit: abortion and stem cell research....what a bunch of bunk!:tear:

Shalom,

Pastor Paul:type:
Remove the Haze Ministries
Prodigal Daze
Thorn Daze
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We supported the prosecution of war criminals from WW2 for doing exactly the same thing we did in Iraq. Were we wrong then to support prosecution of WW2 war criminals or were we wrongin doing exactly the same thing in Iraq? Your choice.

righteousdude2 · May 2, 2009

Your Response to my Rant was....

poncho said: ↑

This nation has already lost it's moral footing. Haven't you noticed?
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....like sitting in the car, with the tyranny in neutral, and your foot on the gas, as you BLOW smoke, and make eye stinging smog.

I don't know what you were trying to say, but, the one place where you made some sense is at the beginning.....and my answer to you is a resounding YES! Yes, I do know that this nation has already lost it's moral footing, and it's rooted in our ability to blindly murder a million babies a year. :tear:

When you have a president who can simplify national crisis's into statement like the following, we have problems:

As for the energy crisis: Keep your tires properly inflated....
As for the Pig flu: Cover your mouth when you cough....

This shows that Obama is nothing more than a "Simpleton!" And his ability to prioritize is poor. The truth is, and I stand by this. We must close the abortion clinics before we close Gitmo. It is a matter of a million Americans life's versus roughly two-to-three hundred terrorist thugs being held in Club Gitmo....

It is more important to me that we stop the slaughter of a million babies each year (more, now that we have given third world nations money to abort babies). As far as I know, NOT one of these thugs have died at Club Gitmo. In fact, I understand that they are gaining weight, getting a good tan, and spending lot's of time reading their holy book.

Poncho, you seem to be a level headed guy. I never tear into your posts. You know I'm right, so get on the team, and help us to stop the holocaust on American fetuses. This is the front line that Obama should being attacking. how many brilliant minds and loving souls are being kept from entering this life to share their God given gifts.

You know we'll be judged by God for killing millions of babies, not for the torture of a few thugs that deserved nothing more than a firing squad.

Blessings to you brother. And Prayers for your heart to see what is truly the reason behind this nation's moral downfall...

Shalom,

Pastor Paul:type:

LadyEagle · May 2, 2009

poncho and pastor paul you are on the same team, even if you don't know it.

Great posts, BTW.

canadyjd · May 2, 2009

righteousdude2 said: ↑

You know we'll be judged by God for killing millions of babies, not for the torture of a few thugs that deserved nothing more than a firing squad.
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Or....we'll be judged for both...and many other things we do when we dismiss the commands of Christ found in God's Word and follow our own judgment and inflamed passions.

peace to youraying:

OldRegular · May 2, 2009

billwald said: ↑

From OP

>Before we close Gitmo, let's close those abortion clinics. Let's put an end to senseless holocaust of baby killings.

Some people can turn a thread on vegetarianism - any thread - into an abortion rant.
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Does that mean you approve of the slaughter of the unborn like obama?

OldRegular · May 2, 2009

JustChristian said: ↑

We supported the prosecution of war criminals from WW2 for doing exactly the same thing we did in Iraq. Were we wrong then to support prosecution of WW2 war criminals or were we wrongin doing exactly the same thing in Iraq? Your choice.
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If you are going to make this asinine charge you should do as you always demand, provide a source! And quit chasing your tail!

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