More bonuses with our money

To be fair, former president Bush had a hand in this train-wreck. Along with much of his cabinet, and congress (from both parties...although most of the opposition came from the R's).

If anyone doubts now...Henry Paulson should be in jail. He is no better than that Madoff character. So should Chris Dodd.

Barney Frank should be in a women's prison.

 

Posted by me on another thread:

I note a Republican senator has called for banking bosses to either resign or commit suicide; whilst I sympathise with the emotion behind his outburst, I think he's perhaps being a tad harsh. Only a tad, though: I prefer the remedy for this sort of thing in medieval times:

(I am indebted to the following entry from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for the year 1125, a period during which the realm was likewise much troubled by the vexing presence of robber knights

“In this year sent the King Henry before Christmas, from Normandy to England, and bade that all the mint-men that were in England should be mutilated in their limbs; that was, that they should lose each of them their right hand, and their testicles beneath. This was because the man that had a pound could not lay out a penny at a market. And the Bishop Roger of Salisbury sent over all England, and bade them all to come to Winchester at Christmas. When they came thither, they were all taken one by one, and deprived each of the right hand and of the testicles beneath. All this was done within the Twelfth-Night. And that was done all in perfect justice, because that they had undone all the land with the great quantity of base coin that they had all bought.”

A law that I think perhaps needs re-looking at in this undone realm of England at least; if it's taxpayers' money that's being used to pay these obscene bonuses for spectacular incompetence, then the taxpayers of this land are entitled to it back - I wish our rather supine Parliament would follow Congress' lead in this regard. I don't think, despite the premise of the OP, that this would be legally challengeable in the courts here (since Parliament is supreme) and it would not be interfering with the bankers' contractual rights (they still get paid the bonus), just taxing them very heavily on money which morally they haven't earned in the first place.

 

If the government would stay out of giving private businesses public funds then there would be no issue for public concern. Now it is yet another political issue to be bantered about by politicians who themselves are exceedingly wasteful with our money.

 

Congress gives out $billions, with a B of our money in pork; some banking businesses give out $millions of our money in pork.

So which are the biggest thieves?

 

What's this?

 

IMO, the administration and congress should do us all a favor and fall on their swords.

 

..."Massachusetts Representative Barney Frank, an acknowledged homosexual, today confirmed that his Washington apartment had been used as a callboy headquarters by a male prostitute for a year and a half until late 1987. Responding to a story in today's Washington Times, Frank said he had hired the prostitute out of his own funds as a personal aide and fired him when he found out what was going on."...

...On July 20, 1990, the House ethics committee absolved Frank of knowing about the prostitution ring, but recommended a reprimand for Frank for fixing Gobie’s 33 parking tickets and wrote a "misleading memo" to secure Gobie’s probation. Reporter Sheilah Kast concluded: "One antigay Republican will try to have Frank expelled. That won't pass, but the full House is likely to vote next week to reprimand Frank, making it difficult for Republicans to use Frank's ethics as a national campaign issue. Sheilah Kast, ABC News, on Capitol Hill."....

http://newsbusters.org/node/8119

 

The first time they were bailed out, it hadn't been done before, we had no idea they would be this irresponsible and wasteful. But what happened the first time should ahve taught the governement a lesson. It didn't. And they are repeating the waste of tax payers money.
The first time, you can't possibly know it will go that bad. But, once it has, it's irresposnible to keep doing it.
And thats where the governement is right now.

 

I bolded your statement Donna that i want to refer to...

YES they had an idea it would be irresponsible...

Those of us here on BB that are conservative were screaming to our reps.
Mike Huckabee stood firm against the stimulus package even against Bush..


This, "we didn't know" is a bunch of baloney...
They knew.. .they were told.. they were just to dumb to listen to us.

It's time for a change.. BIG change... if America is to survive.

ALL politicians that supported these "Stimulus/bailout" packages should be impeached for treason!..

Allow the companies to file bankruptcy.. This country was built on a free market.. captalism.. not socialism... so applying socialism bandaids on captialistic bleeders will not fix the country... it is the wrong diagnosis.

Allow GM to fail.. .other companies with better ideas will emerge...
Allow AIG to fail.. . The world won't end.. competing companies will pick up the pieces, and the country will be better for it.

There is no way we can avoid mass layoffs...
But we can avoid destroying everything our country was built on.

The problem is, we are too selfish..
We are also a bunch of wimps...
The people that went through the Great Depression and survived were tough...
We could learn some lessons...

BUt NO... we don't want to face that because we are too accustomed to our cell phones, McDs, computers, internet, Cable tv, etc...

It may be time to go back to the basics...
But we don't want to, so we throw worthless paper money into a blackhole of debt.. like throwing pennies into a wish well.

Spending money to save it will not work.

Borrowing money to get out of debt doesn't work on a personal level.. why will it work on a fed. level?
I learned this lesson a hard way.

One time we were in a situation where we didn't have money to buy groceries.. so I opened an account at a local mom and pop store...
The next month.. .I owed $150... So I had to take $150 out of our grocery budget to pay for it... of course we ran short because of that, and had to go back to the mom and pop store to put more on credit.. .and the cycle began...

For over 9 months.. the same thing... plus the mom and pop store charged almost double on some items, but because I had no money, I had to use my account there..

Finally enough was enough.. ... WE made up our minds to tough it out one month... OH it was tough, and we got hungry... REAL hungry.. but the only way to break the cycle was to suffer...

The next month, we didn't owe anything at the Mom and pop store, and was able to double our buying strength at Walmart... And we never charged again!

This happened about 15 yrs ago.

This is what our country needs to do... in order to break the cycle, we need to suffer a while.. .it will hurt.. but in the long run we will be better off.

 

Amen!!! Dad

 

Whoo.. hoo... I am raising my own cheering section!!! LOL...

Scary though!

 

While I understand the outrage against bonuses. If I look at the situation objectively and not with my emotions, we can't start with all these salary and bonus restrictions. We (tax payers) have invested billions in these companies. If I was calling the shots I would now want the most qualified management I could find to run the place in order to turn them around so we get the billions repaid. In the high income world of big finance if you want to compete, you must pay competitive salaries and bonuses. If we don't, in reality it is just cutting off our nose to spite out face. If these companies only end up with mid to low quality people running the place and all the top people stay far and clear away, we are just going to either be investing billions more in the companies, or watching them fail and lose it all as the end results.

Everyone wants to just restrict and punish right now, and while that might feel better, in reality is probably is not better. And all this mocked outrage from the politicians is disgusting. The moral high ground those hypocrites were taking against the head of AIG the other day, and the way they treated him was the real outrage.

How about we tax all of congress incomes at 70% until the balance our budgets?

 

Why should anyone be worried about any Company paying any bonuses, today?

As Congress showed only yesterday, when the heat increased, they "solved" the problem, by simply 'stealing' back 90% of that money that was legally and legitimately earned, including money contracted for previously, and in many cases, long before any financial problems surfaced.

And it's even more galling, that some of these grandstanding pols (from both sides of the aisle) actually griped that this was not a 100% tax, no less.

BTW, if the Administration and the Congress can now 'steal' any amount over $250K, how long before that will drop to say $200K, $150K, $100 K, or whatever other arbitrary figure some other politico deems acceptable. This stuff is straight out of the Marx/Engels playbook, folks!

FTR, despite the fact that I believe that even by accepting these bonuses, in many, if not in most instances here, some are somehow managing to "lower the bar" completely beneath the surface of anything that is remotely reasonable, the fact remains that they were entirely legal, open, and above board, and in every case that I'm aware of, were contracted for long before they were disbursed. This was not some deal conjured up in some "Smoke-filled boardroom" during the last week.

In fact, after another coupla' weeks or so, I would doubt there will be any such thing as any "smoke-filled" boardroom, considering the punitive federal tobacco tax increases that go into effect Apr. 1, with Federal tax increases that will raise the tax level to more than roughly 2 1/2 times for cigarettes (39¢ to $1.00 per pack), chewing tobacco (19.5¢ to 50.3¢ per #), and pipe tobacco ($1.10 to $2.83 per #), and nearly triple the tax on snuff (53.5¢ to $1.51 per #).

And this is only a small percentage of increase compared to 'large' cigars (increased to 8 times (or 800%) from 5¢ to 40¢ per cigar), a huge jump for "loose" or "roll your own" cigarette (or pipe), tobacco [increased to more than 22 times from $1.10 to $24.78 per # (That's more than 2250% for all the 'math whizzes' here.)], and small cigars with these multiplied to a gargantuan increase, to 25 times the current level, or an unbelievable whopping 2500% of the current tax rate.

(Wonder why that 25 times hike is not suggested for booze?? I can't recall many fatal accidents attributed to someone smoking a cigarette, but I can sure recall a number where someone was DUI.)

And that is just the Federal taxes! BTW, many states, including my own KY, are simultaneously increasing (or looking to increase) their own tax take, as well, so one may well be looking at a rate much higher than this. KY will increase the state tax on cigarettes by an additional 30¢ per pack, Apr. 1, and the Governors of both WI and MI are shooting for massive tax increases there as well, for three examples.

I recent heard a local radio personality say that at this rate, it would soon be cheaper to smoke 'crack' than to smoke tobacco. I'd say we are certainly headed in that direction. :tear:

Actually, maybe I should simply ask, "Tea, anyone??"

Ed

 

I tend to disagree here regarding experience. It is the 'executive pool' of experience that these guys have brought to their resumes and their jobs along with their corrupt ways and the brass to do their business. I think it is time to go looking for people who have run smaller banks, smaller industries, smaller businesses with success..... throw out the old croggies who are so entrenched in their back rooms and board rooms and elite clubs....... and hire new blood that comes with enthusiasm for a job they'd never expected to land because their degrees weren't from the ivy league of schools, nor their experience or accomplishments bought from the handshakes and back patting of influence and coddleing others with their flaterries.


Sorry bout errors....didn't proof.... gotta run!

 

Now ain't that just ducky!!!

 

Lets look at the big one making all the news. AIG CEO Edward Liddy, that has been getting all the bashing even thogh he wasn't even responsible for this mess. At the request of Henry Paulson this man came out of retirement to help try and fix this mess. He is taking a salary of one dollar a year, and he is very qualified. The entire attitude of get rid of them all is just an emotional throw the baby out with the bath water reaction. As far a small community banks, they are really in a different world. I am an investor in a local community bank, one of my best friends is chairman of the board, and while they are very good at what they do, I wouldn't want them taking over these largest institutions. Most regional banks are based more on dealing with and knowing the markets within their regional community. The type of complicated assets that these world wide investment banks are dealing with are nothing like what ht smaller banks deal with. It would be like saying I love my good old small town family doctor, so I am going to let him perform my triple bypass. He might be a great doctor but not trained to deal with that.

Now I agree there are problems and there needs to be some changes in the way things have been done, but the people you want trying to value and sell the toxic assets the we as taxpayers have invest billions in are the experts that know the game and make a big salary or bonus doing so. Once we get out of the woods we need to look at ways to insure that companies can't get back into these situations, but that doesn't help us now getting out of it.