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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reformed, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    We live in a nation that murders the unborn (almost 60,000,000 to date since 1973), perverts God's covenant of marriage, as well as God's created order of male and female. Life is no longer sacred. Authorities, politicians, pundits, and our fellow citizens will debate the possible motivations of the gunman in the Sutherland Springs, TX shooting. They will look for clues as to what ties this mass shooting to other similar tragedies. But as they look for answers they will not ask the right questions and come up to the wrong conclusion. They will miss the evil that resides and grows within society. They will not connect evil deeds to an evil heart, and almost certainly will not consider what happens when a nation abandons God.
     
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  2. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    “What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." "Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known." "There is no fear of God before their eyes."” - Romans‬ ‭3:9-18‬ ‭ESV‬‬
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    True, true. One thing though Reformed - Legalized abortion was a social directive taken out of the hands of the citizenry and forced upon us.
    In 1973 I was old enough to vote yet legalized abortion was decide upon by the SCOTUS under a Republican administration under the disguise of "A Woman's Right to Choose".

    No one on either side of the aisle has attempted legislation to overthrow Roe versus Wade via the will of the people.

    The Trump/Pence administration has made that promise, President Trump has taken a giant step in that direction by the appointment of Neil Gorsuch.

    I believe A large part of the fury of the Trump/Pence Administration Resistance is because they ("progressives") know the reversal of "A Woman's Right to Choose" by the SCOTUS is inevitable.

    HankD
     
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  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    From your hand to God’s ear.

    The problem(s) will never be resolved until righteousness rules the nations.

    At that time there will be no need for SCOTUS of any nation, for He alone will rule with a rod of iron.
     
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, but while I am here on planet earth I will do whatever I legally can to defeat the works of darkness especially those which promote
    the legalized bloodshed of the innocent. Support groups which are pro-life, support and vote for pro-life candidates.

    HankD
     
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  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Hank,

    I am aware of the timeline of abortion. I was 12 years old when infanticide was made "legal". Making the killing of the unborn legal actually makes this national sin worse. The government is actively engaged in promoting and protecting murder. In the context of First Baptist Church of Sutherland, it underscores the devaluing of human life. In the greater context, it is hard to sing "God bless America" when our very government allows the sacrifice of babies to unbridled narcissism.
     
  7. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Reversing Roe v. Wade will simply return to the status quo ante, and will have little, if any, impact on the number of abortions. The only way to change the culture is through the gospel, not politics.

    I think all abortions should be illegal based on the principle of double effect:

    lifeissues | Abortion: Correct Application of Natural Law Theory
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Except to physically save the life of the mother. :)
     
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  9. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    No, the principle of double effect says there should be intentional killing of an unborn baby, not even to save the life of the mother. From the article I posted:

    "In short, a pregnant woman who is faced with the grim reality of impending death short of the use of, e.g., chemotherapy or hysterectomy, may use these and other morally licit medical treatments and procedures for the reasonably grave reason of saving her life, as long as the death of her unborn child is not directly intended as the end (or purpose) of using these procedures, or is the means by which her life is saved, but only allowed or permitted to happen as an accidental by-product of these medical actions, and no other reasonable medical treatment is available. However, the directly intended death of an unborn child by means of procured abortion remains morally indefensible - even to save the life of the mother, or for the best of intentions, or under very difficult circumstances - even in the case of incest or rape."
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Oh, I agree Reformed, my heart is heavy when I stand for our anthem or sing/hear other patriotic songs because of our present government..

    But I do stand and render respect for my country knowing that most would probably vote against abortion if brought to a referendum vote.

    Our family does remember the birth of Christ This time of the year but again the joy of the season is dampened considerably by our governments sin against those in the womb.

    Surely their blood cries out to our father in heaven.

    This depraved act of cold blooded slaughter hit me worse than any because this individual willfully killed an 18 month old baby.



    HankD
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    If it comes down to saving the life of the mother (e.g. tubular pregnancy) by killing the fetus then it should be the mother's decision ALONE IMO.
    Not anyone else, husband, parents, brother, sister, pastor, priest, etc... No input from anyone but the attending physician unless she requests otherwise...

    She will have the greatest cross to bear.

    HankD
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    That is idiotic. And contradicts the article. My wife had an ectopic pregnancy that cause her fallopian tube to burst and tore her uterus. She was bleeding to death internally. When the doctor came out to talk to me he said they only thing they could do was to abort the baby and repair the damage. I asked if the baby was viable. He said yes, but is too young to survive outside the womb. He explained that doing nothing would result in both the baby and my wife dying. I told him to take the baby and save my wife's life. I have never regretted that decision. That was two kids and 6 grandkids ago. None of whom would exist had I let her die.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Gentlemen, I suggest you read the article more carefully and logically.
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Actually even the Catholic Church will allow that kind of ectopic pregnancy to be terminated because the decision was made to remove the tube that was killing your wife. the child was not the motivation of the abortion but the necessity of the removal of the damaged tube which would have caused your wife to bleed out.

    My wife had one as well between our second and third child but it aborted naturally as the doctor was prepping to remove it.

    HankD
     
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Hank, I believe God's hand of judgment is already on our nation. God doesn't have to do anything to the United States. All he has to do is leave us to our own devices. We will do the rest.
     
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  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I completely agree!


    This is the way God always displayed His disproval (wrath) in the Scriptures.

    What other than great evil erupts when God withholds His approval!

    Be it snakes, invasions, earthquakes, famine, flood, ...

    Look at Job, when God withdrew His Hand of protection.

    If God is willing for such to be that of a righteous man, what is in storage for the ungodly?
     
  17. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Well, not always. God hit Egypt pretty hard via divine retribution. Likewise Sodom and Gomorrah. However, it is more normative for God to allow people, and nations, to experience the natural consequences of their sin.
     
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  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Nope,

    In each situation, throughout Scriptures, God, by removing His protection, allows both the ungodly human and natural forces to run true to to their fallen estate.

    Examples: flood, frogs, boils, snakes, fire falling, earthquake, famin, plagues, defeat, conquered, ... all manner of tragedies, personal and environmental.


    At ONLY the second coming does the Scripture describe the literal force of God as He descends crushing the evil world wide.
     
  19. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I disagree. I believe God was the first cause of the judgments on Sodom and Egypt even though He may have used natural forces to levy those judgments. There are other judgments where God was more passive in His direct action, but He judged nonetheless.
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I don’t see anybody working on a repeal... please inform me what action is being taken. Thanks
     
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