MoveOn.org being themselves with Rand

[Bob Alkire]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101026/ap_on_re_us/us_kentucky_senate_scuffle

I'll be up front about this, I'm not a fan of Rand or his father. Many of the folks who back his father remind me of the folks who like Jimmy Buffett, it is almost a cult like following. I even like the move on folks less.

I like the following:
[COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Paul's [COLOR=#366388 !important]campaign[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] released a statement calling the altercation "incredibly unfortunate" and expressed relief that the woman was not injured.
"Violence of any kind has no place in our civil discourse and we urge supporters on all sides to be civil to one another as tensions rise heading toward this very important election," the statement said.

 

[KenH]

There is no place for such violence in our elections. I am glad the woman was not seriously injured.

I hope that self-restraint will be shown by all partisans during this next week.

I am looking forward hopefully to a Rand Paul victory so that we will have one U.S. senator who will defend the U.S. constitution in debates in the U.S. Senate.

 

[Bob Alkire]

This what I dislike, this mess is growing in Louisville. As I said I'm not a backer of Rand but he did nothing wrong and everything he did as far as I've read was correct.

But that group that thinks with their emotions is what I saw so much around his father and it looks like Rand draws a lot of the same type.

That is also why I can't back libertarians as a rule, much of their following is cult like. Many of them talk conservative but act liberal till it hurts their family. Down here it was said that BHO carried about 85 % of the libertarians who responded to the poll.

 

[freeatlast]

while the woman should have been subdued and was, the man who stomped on her should be arrested for assault. She was already under control and not resisting and he was clearly assaulting her. He is not only a criminal but he is a cowered and should be arrested for his crime

 

[Bob Alkire]

while the woman should have been subdued and was, the man who stomped on her should be arrested for assault. She was already under control and not resisting and he was clearly assaulting her. He is not only a criminal but he is a cowered and should be arrested for his crime

They should throw the book at him!!!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101026/ap_on_re_us/us_kentucky_senate_scuffle

I'll be up front about this, I'm not a fan of Rand or his father. Many of the folks who back his father remind me of the folks who like Jimmy Buffett, it is almost a cult like following. I even like the move on folks less.

As both a Rand fan and a huge Parrothead, I really don't care what you think.

 

[Bob Alkire]

As both a Rand fan and a huge Parrothead, I really don't care what you think.

I believe you have that right. But I will keep my view after putting in almost 10 years listen to Ron Paul and his libertarians.
And after seeing so many of his backers down here go for BHO help me agree on my believe of the libertarians, not to far removed from liberals.

 

[poncho]

Lauren Valle of liberal group MoveOn.org, told Louisville station WDRB she was trying to give Paul a fake award when his supporters took her to the ground.

This story seems to be missing something. The other side of it.

About that Head Stomping Incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLeud-sxrM

Does it look like she was trying to give Rand Paul a fake award? She forcibly shoved a sign in the man's face. Luckly this time it was only a sign.

This woman evidently has histroy. Activists Face Felony Charges

There was also another incident.

The second occurred after a Conway supporter stepped on the foot of a female Rand supporter, who recently had foot surgery, according to police.

The woman was wearing a surgical boot, but after the injury, her incision was cut open. Police say she refused medical treatment and also filed an assault report. SOURCE


To borrow a phrase from President Obama, Valle acted stupidly. To walk up to the vehicle of a candidate for the US Senate and shove something into the candidate’s face is asking for trouble. I’m not saying Valle’s head should have been stomped. But just imagine the reaction by liberals if the situation were reversed – if a conservative activist ran up to the vehicle and shoved something in the face of say, Harry Reid. Do you believe the conservative would have gotten off as easily as Valle did?

Also, as to the charge that Rand Paul supporters are violent, Tea Party whack jobs, note the Red State account indicates it was Ron Paul supporters who called for the police. SOURCE

Jack Conway's campaign keeps up the pressure on Rand Paul over the stomp heard 'round the world:

"We are still waiting for Rand Paul to apologize to the victim of this attack. A boot stomp to the head of a woman is never appropriate, Rand should apologize to her, stop blaming others, and identify the others involved in this thuggish behavior and disassociate his campaign from them immediately." SOURCE

The way I see it so far, the stomper and the stompee should both be arrested and charged with assault. Lauren Valle is lying and the mass dream media is only to happy to use hers lies to demonize Rand Paul and the "tea Party" in general.

Neither candidate should have to apopologize for the action of another person who is not directly under their control but both candidates should condemn any type of violent action on the part of their respective supporters.

So far only one candidate has done this. Rand Paul. I'm guessing the other probably hopes you'll ride the hype and never know Valle is lying and that one of his supporters is guilty of stomping people too.

"The Paul campaign also said it was dissociating itself from Profitt, banning him from campaign events. It's unclear whether that includes plans to return Profitt's campaign contributions."

"The Paul for Senate campaign is extremely disappointed in, and condemns the actions of a supporter last night outside the KET debate," the Paul campaign said earlier today. "Whatever the perceived provocation, any level of aggression or violence is deplorable, and will not be tolerated by our campaign. The Paul campaign has disassociated itself from the volunteer who took part in this incident, and once again urges all activists -- on both sides -- to remember that their political passions should never manifest themselves in physical altercations of any kind." SOURCE

 

[poncho]

And after seeing so many of his backers down here go for BHO help me agree on my believe of the libertarians, not to far removed from liberals.

I can see where you might think that Bob. Used to be a time when conservatives were opposed to things like endless wars, wreckless spending, pre emptive strikes and big government. I still am.

Does that make me a liberal now?

 

[KenH]

Rand Paul has expanded his lead in the polls to 15% now. Conway's campaign has gone down the drain.

www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_KY_10311025.pdf

Looks like I will be a very happy man on Tuesday. I sent a contribution to Rand Paul's campaign when it was just getting started in the primary before anyone had any idea he would easily win the GOP primary. I sent another contribution after he won the primary and now it looks like he will easily win again.

Ron Paul(headed for easy re-election) in the House and Rand Paul in the Senate. That's only 2 pro-liberty, pro-limited government folks that will be in Congress out of 535, but it is a start.

May their tribe increase.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I can see where you might think that Bob. Used to be a time when conservatives were opposed to things like endless wars, wreckless spending, pre emptive strikes and big government. I still am.

I still am.

Does that make me a liberal now?

Only you can answer that. I know there has not been a conservative run for president in years . That is why I have only cast one vote for president in the last 6 election and that was 3rd. party.

 

[poncho]

Only you can answer that..

I would say more of a Jeffersonian. I know that doesn't fit neatly into the left vs right paradigm as the majority would like but neither do I, evidently.

I know there has not been a conservative run for president in years . That is why I have only cast one vote for president in the last 6 election and that was 3rd. party

No argument there. But I might expand on that to say national politics is all theater. More of an "R" rated sock puppet matinee than an election.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I would say more of a Jeffersonian. I know that doesn't fit neatly into the left vs right paradigm as the majority would like but neither do I, evidently.

Walt Williams and I were talking about 10 years ago, and he said he leaned more to what he called liberal Jeffersonian. As we talked I brought how close they were to libertarian. He said Jeffersonian's moral stand wasn't as good as conservatives but much better than libertarian. I have to say I agree with him.

So you will know I'm a conservative first, theology, politics, and my personal finances and on government spending as well.

No argument there. But I might expand on that to say national politics is all theater. More of an "R" rated sock puppet matinee than an election.

From JFK on so much had been on looks, now we add the Madison Avenue
sales job. It is kind of like a lot of men, did we marry the woman next to us or what is on the dresser top? Yes, I know that is a poor try by me on humor.

 

[poncho]

Walt Williams and I were talking about 10 years ago, and he said he leaned more to what he called liberal Jeffersonian. As we talked I brought how close they were to libertarian. He said Jeffersonian's moral stand wasn't as good as conservatives but much better than libertarian. I have to say I agree with him.

Liberalism had whole nuther meaning in Jefferson's time. What I mean is it wasn't the bleeding heart socialism of today. What, in your opinion would make Jefferson as good as a conservative?

So you will know I'm a conservative first, theology, politics, and my personal finances and on government spending as well.

Me to basically but the word politics covers alot of ground. Politically I'm all about limited constitutional government and the idea that our government was instituted to protect our individual rights not just give liberty lip service as it seeks to increase it's power over every aspect of our lives.

We should have never become the out of control global warfare/welfare state that we are.

The way I see it.

Today's liberalism would bleed us dry feeding the whole world while today's conservativism would bleed us dry trying to gain control over it.

Neither one of these approaches is my cup of tea. We (the people) get bled dry either way!

From JFK on so much had been on looks, now we add the Madison Avenue
sales job. It is kind of like a lot of men, did we marry the woman next to us or what is on the dresser top? Yes, I know that is a poor try by me on humor.

Yeah and once upon a time politicians sold us dreams now they sell us nightmares. Either way the goal has always been more money, more power and more control. Now that government and business is more or less merged together and acting as one we have a whole new nightmare staring us in the face and most Americans don't even realize it.

Yet.

But we are waking up a little more everyday.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Liberalism had whole nuther meaning in Jefferson's time. What I mean is it wasn't the bleeding heart socialism of today. What, in your opinion would make Jefferson as good as a conservative?.

Jefferson's world was a more conservative world than today. Nothing would make Jefferson a conservative. Keep in mind he got Thomas Payne out of prison in France, because Payne backed the wrong side (not the winning side). They had said all it would have took was a letter from his friend George Washington to get him out, Washington was loved by the French people, but Washington wouldn't send it to get Payne out. I believe for the time Jefferson and Clinton had more in common in their personal life and in their political life both were liberal for the day but the liberal of Clinton's day was much more so than in Jefferson's day.

Me to basically but the word politics covers alot of ground. Politically I'm all about limited constitutional government and the idea that our government was instituted to protect our individual rights not just give liberty lip service as it seeks to increase it's power over every aspect of our lives. .

I'm with you, but keep in mind through out history, humans haven't done well with the power deal when they are the one in power. As the country grows there seem to be less care for the mass of people and more care for self and my group.

We should have never become the out of control global warfare/welfare state that we are..

Keep in mind this was pushed by a great education, President Wilson. I had a professor in school who said you never want an educator, lawyer or government worked as president, many of them live in a world leaning or falling to the left, and they believe they know what is best. Also said you didn't want to put educator in charge of local school, let the local people be in charge. If you control education you will be changing the country, just look back over the last 50 or 60 years.



The way I see it.

Today's liberalism would bleed us dry feeding the whole world while today's conservativism would bleed us dry trying to gain control over it.

Neither one of these approaches is my cup of tea. We (the people) get bled dry either way!.

If we would keep the family together things would be better. Family takes care of family, when more help is needed their church get into the act of helping, then the community. If that were done and we gained back control of schools much would be changed.

Keep in mind as I'm sure you know, there is a big difference in conservative and Republican.

Yeah and once upon a time politicians sold us dreams now they sell us nightmares. Either way the goal has always been more money, more power and more control. Now that government and business is more or less merged together and acting as one we have a whole new nightmare staring us in the face and most Americans don't even realize it.

Yet.

But we are waking up a little more everyday.

Keep in mind many who vote are trying to get something from the government. I believe the government we have is a good reflection of the people who vote.

 

[poncho]

Jefferson's world was a more conservative world than today. Nothing would make Jefferson a conservative. Keep in mind he got Thomas Payne out of prison in France, because Payne backed the wrong side (not the winning side). They had said all it would have took was a letter from his friend George Washington to get him out, Washington was loved by the French people, but Washington wouldn't send it to get Payne out. I believe for the time Jefferson and Clinton had more in common in their personal life and in their political life both were liberal for the day but the liberal of Clinton's day was much more so than in Jefferson's day.




I'm with you, but keep in mind through out history, humans haven't done well with the power deal when they are the one in power. As the country grows there seem to be less care for the mass of people and more care for self and my group.



Keep in mind this was pushed by a great education, President Wilson. I had a professor in school who said you never want an educator, lawyer or government worked as president, many of them live in a world leaning or falling to the left, and they believe they know what is best. Also said you didn't want to put educator in charge of local school, let the local people be in charge. If you control education you will be changing the country, just look back over the last 50 or 60 years.



The way I see it.


If we would keep the family together things would be better. Family takes care of family, when more help is needed their church get into the act of helping, then the community. If that were done and we gained back control of schools much would be changed.

Keep in mind as I'm sure you know, there is a big difference in conservative and Republican.






Keep in mind many who vote are trying to get something from the government. I believe the government we have is a good reflection of the people who vote.

It doesn't help that we have a population that has become so dumbed down it's easily manipulated by the "powers that be". I believe the government we have has been co opted by the money changers and as Jefferson once said, "the corporations that" grew up around it.

Good reflection or not we live in a state of corporate fascism and I doubt very much we'll survive it as an independent sovereign nation unless we all smarten up soon.

We pay way to much attention to all the petty players (politicians) and not nearly enough to the big fish that actually run this country and have control over those petty players. Imho of course.

It isn't about the left vs the right anymore. It's about the survival of the republic of the United States of America.

 

[Bob Alkire]

It doesn't help that we have a population that has become so dumbed down it's easily manipulated by the "powers that be". I believe the government we have has been co opted by the money changers and as Jefferson once said, "the corporations that" grew up around it.

Keep in mind our government put in the death tax, and that led to an increase in corporations. One couldn't turn there business over to the family as easy, with out a good tax bite. So business was sold out to the corp. that offered the best deal. I notice that started with farms and groves down here in the 60's.

 

[poncho]

Well, there's not alot left that hasn't been monopolized already that's for sure.