My Outline of Endtime Events for 2006 Study

[Me4Him]

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Just as the above verse show that Jesus doesn't deal with Israel while he is dealing with the Church,

neither will he deal with the church when he is dealing with Israel.

Leadership by both "law and Prohets" (God/OT) and "Holy Ghost" (Jesus/NT) does not function at the same time, in the same time frame.

This is one reason why the church is rapture before the trib begins and the "law" (Moses) and "Prophet" (Elijah) (Two witnesses) return.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother Me4Him - you are so RIGHT ON!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: //I. PRE-ENDTIME EVENTS - Outline by Mel Miller

//1. ...
4. Temple rebuilt while Babylon rules from Rome.
...//

While I agree that the Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt during
the first half of Daniel's 70th week, I mark the beginning
of Daniel's 70th week with the rapture (taking to heaven of
both the living and the dead) prior to the Tribulation Period
(Daniel's 70th week).

However, I think God can keep Babylon in what is now Iraq and
Rome which is now in Italy and Jerusalem which is now in Israel,
I think he can keep the three cities straight.
Nor do I believe the American bragging that "Babylon' is on
the Hudsen River

BTW, everybody knows that the sacrifices on Temple Mount can be
started within a week of the signing of the peace treaty between
the Antichrist. The contruction of the stone temple: the Holy Place
and the Holy of Holies - this can go on while the daily sacrifices
take place.

About 1989 I was talking to a Rabbinical Student in New York City.
He said the Jews will know Messiah has come when these things happen:

1. Peace comes to Yisrael
2. The Daily Sacrifice is restored
3. The Temple is Rebuilt.

Well we know it will be the Anti-messiah that does that first,
not Messiah Jesus. For we know that the daily sacrifice is no
longer needed - Jesus Himself is the perfect permenant sacrifice.
Where Messiah Jesus is, there is where the Temple is.

I believe the scripture teaches that a physical Jesus will
rule for 1,000 years (this could be a figure of 'a long time')
over a physical kingdom of Israel in a physical world from a
physical throne of David in a physical Jerusalem. I believe
selected saints (both Isreali and Gentile saints fromt the Gentile
Age will help him rule as a reward for things done in the flesh.

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed and Me4Him,

I agree with what you both write concerning Israel and the Church so long as the point of
demarcation between these two occurs on the
Day Christ comes to redeem Israel and Judah.

Interpretation and application of last day events relate strictly to Christ's Presence!

We must recognize the issue involves the Jews "left behind" at Christ’s 2nd Advent.

Pre-Tribbers are confused in believing those
“left behind” refer to Christians. Their interpretation is incorrect and therefore the application of who should PRAY to escape after Christ appears is misapplied to Christians; not one of whom will be “Left Behind”! This false premise of Christians being left behind is imbedded in LaHaye's books.

We are to WATCH until Christ comes, as He said,
"immediately after the great tribuation", but Jews are blinded to knowing in advance that His coming is *Near* and so are not urged to PRAY until they “see” the Son of Man. Luke 21:36.
They will begin to "mourn" after the Rapture of all Believers from "earth TO heaven"! They will
continue to mourn and PRAY to escape as angels complete our "gathering in the heavenS".

Jesus does not tell Believers, but only Jews, to “Look Up” when they see Christ appear; for
we will be caught up by Him seconds before He appears. Luke 21:28. The Jews ETHNICALLY are still under God’s wrath (orgay) until Gentile times are finished.

Therefore, Jesus deals with the Church until
the last day of this Age ... the Day of the Lord
is 1000 years to the day; not 1007 years!!

Jews will not "know their redemption or Kingdom are near" until Christ appears. Luke 21:22-24; 28-31. Their days of vengeance include the great
tribulation; not just UP TO the start of Daniel's
70th Seven. God deals again with the Jews AS HIS
PEOPLE once again on "DAY ONE" of the Day of the
Lord. Your "7-Year Day" cannot be proven.


Only the Jews “left behind” are urged to “Stand erect and to PRAY to escape all these things
... including the Hour of Trial coming on all inhabitants on all the face of all the earth ... Luke 21:34-35; Rev.3:10 ... the Hour no Believer experiences!!

The eyes of Jews will open after Two Prophets have prepared them for the personal advent of their Messiah ... and these two suddenly arise from the dead (in the sight of all mankind) just before heaven’s Temple Opens for the Three-Act Drama of The Testimony in Rev.7, The Tribunal of Seal 7 and Triumph of the 7th Trumpet. Victory, Verdict and Vengeance are so imminent during
the 12-Hour Day of the Lord!!

Luke does not address the Elect NOR urge them to PRAY to escape NOR refer to them being under God’s “wrath” as stated of the Jews. Luke 21:23.

Therefore, Jesus reveals only at that final HOUR that Jews who are left behind suddenly “know their kingdom is near”. Vs.31. Only those left behind to face God’s Hour of Trial may be “kept alive” if they are willing do die (a test already passed for Believers) and because they
"prevail to stand before the Son of Man". Luke 17:33; Luke 21:36.

The percentage of those caught up to meet Jesus before the Jews begin to PRAY will be very small compared to a ratio of 100% for ETHNIC Jews and 50-50 for the rest of Abraham's natural seed Left Behind as “one is taken and one left” everwhere among the "tribes of the earth".

It took 70 years of the 20th Century for Pre-Tribbers to finally recognize the “ONES TAKEN” could not refer to Believers “taken in the Rapture”. My pastor, in 1970, changed his
doctrine that the "Church is Taken to heaven"
before the Trib and the Lost are Left behind.
He didn't teach that Believers will be LEFT -
"to the Birds" because it was 7 years too soon!

Many Believers still do not realize the ones LEFT refer to the Jews from whom God will no longer “hide His face” and that ALL of both houses of Israel and Judah will be saved so that, finally, "God's will begins to be fulfilled on EARTH as it is in HEAVEN" ... not just for 1000 years, but in an earthly kingdom that will be inherited forever by the sheep nations!

Only the Bride will dwell in the New Jerusalem!
Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

ED

In the 1967 war, General Moshe Dyan (Spelling???) was angry when a reporter ask him if the temple would be rebuild now that Israel had control of Jerusalem again??

In his anger, he replied:

THE TEMPLE IS ALREADY BUILD

Realizing he had "let the cat out of the bag", he turned and walked away.

The temple is "PREFAB", iron tools can't be used "on site", it must be constructed "off site" and assembled "on site".

"all the parts", "all the pieces" are already "Prefab", just waiting for the right moment, and once construction begins, all commerces in Israel will stop, everyone will be working on the temple.

De 27:5 And there shalt thou build an altar unto the LORD thy God, an altar of stones: thou shalt not lift up any iron tool upon them.

1Ki 6:7 And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: (prefab) so that there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed and Me4Him,

I note that neither of you has supported your
view that God STOPS dealing with the Church
at the beginning of Daniel's 70th Seven if that
is when He STARTS dealing with Israel.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The New Testament Mysteries point to
the veracity of the pretrib rapture position.

1. Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven

Matthew 12:10-11 (nKJV):
10. And the disciples came and said to Him,
"Why do you speak to them in parables?"
11. He answered and said to them, "Because it
has been given to you to know THE MYSTERIES
OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but to them it has
not been given.

The parables of the Kingdom of Heaven are
given in Matthew 13:3-50 and in Mark 4:26-29

I believe the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven
describe the Church Age. The Church Age
goes from Pentacost to Rapture/resurrection/transformation.
During that age the Holy Spirit moves among
humans convicting of sin, and calling humans
to salvation through Jesus, the Christ.
This period in HIS-story can also be called
"the age of the gentiles".

2. Mystery of Israel's blindness in the Church Age

Romans 11:25-26a (nKJV):
For I do not desire, brethren, that you
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you
should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness
in part has happened to Israel until the
fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26. And so all Israel will be saved,

I've had several interesting discussions
with Messianic Jews. They are thrilled at the
prospects that when the last possible gentile
(Hebrew: "goy") comes to accept Jesus, the Messiah,
as their personal savior -- then will Jesus
resurrect/rapture/transform the saved to that time.
Then will come the Tribulation, with the purpose
of Jesus finally winning the Jews unto Himself.


3. Mystery of the Rapture

1 Chrinthians 15:51a (NIV):
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep,
but we will all be changed -- ...

1 Thessalonians 4:14,16

Titus 2:13 (nKJV):
looking for the blessed hope and
glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jeus
Christ

Of course, such a rapture must be pretrib
when 100s of millions of saints are still alive,
for after the tribulation there will only be a few
handfuls of living saints.


4. Mystery of His Will

Ephesians 1:9-12 (NIV)
And he made known to us the mystery of his will according
to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10 to be put into effect when the times will have
reached their fulfillment -- to bring all things
in heaven and on earth together under one head,
even Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having
been predestined according to the plan of him who
works out everything in conformity with
the purpose of his will,
12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in
Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

May God's will be done!

From Eternity past God has intended
to bring all things together in Christ.

This joining inclues the gentile church and
the race of Yisrael. At the pretribulation
rapture Jesus takes the gentile church out
of the world, and then uses the Tribulation
to bring Yisrael back to Him.


5. Mystery of Christ:
the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel

Ephesians 3:2-12 (NIV):

2 Surely you have heard about the administration
of God's grace that was given to me for you,
3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation,
as I have already written briefly.
4 In reading this, then, you will be able
to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5 which was not made known to men in other generations
as it has now been revealed by the Spirit
to God's holy apostles and prophets.
6 This mystery is that through the gospel
the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel,
members together of one body, and sharers
together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
7 I became a servant of this gospel by the
gift of God's grace given me through the working
of his power.
8 Although I am less than the least of all God's
people, this grace was given me: to preach to
the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make plain to everyone the administration
of this mystery, which for ages past was
kept hidden in God, who created all things.
10 His intent was that now, through the church,
the manifold wisdom of God should be made
known to the rulers and authorities in
the heavenly realms,
11 according to his eternal purpose
which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 In him and through faith in him
we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

This is interesting because both verse 5 and 9
define "mystery".

The gentile church and the race of Yisrael
are joint heirs of God's promise to Abraham.
At the pretribulation rapture Jesus takes the gentile church

out
of the world, and then He uses the Tribulation
to bring Yisrael back to Him.

BTW, Ephesians 3:2 the word "administration"
in the NIV is rendered "dispensation"
in the KJV1769.


6. Mystery of Church the Bride of Christ

Ephesians 4:30b-33 (NIV):

for we are members of his body.
31 "For this reason a man will leave his father
and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh."
32 This is a profound mystery--but I
am talking about Christ and the church.
33 However, each one of you also must
love his wife as he loves himself,
and the wife must respect her husband

Revelation 19: (NIV):

Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear."
(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)

Does Jesus take his Bride out of the world
before the "wedding of the Lamb" (pretrib)
or after the "wedding of the Lamb" (postrib)?


7. Mystery of the Indwelling Christ in Believers

John 15:4 (NIV)
Remain in me, and I will remain in you.
No branch can bear fruit by itself;
it must remain in the vine.
Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

Galations 2:20 (NIV)
I have been crucified with Christ and I no
longer live, but Christ lives in me.
The life I live in the body, I live
by faith in the Son of God, who loved me
and gave himself for me.

Philippians 1:21 (NIV)
For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

Colossians 1:25-26 (NIV)
the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages
and generations, but is now disclosed
to the saints.
27 To them God has chosen to make known
among the Gentiles the glorious
riches of this mystery, which is
Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Woah! Christianity has the other mystery religions
beatten hands down! Christ who is God dwells
within each saint!

What glory is there in the Pretribulation Rapture?
ALL GLORY!

What glory is there in dragging into the Tribulation?


8. Mystery of God, Even Christ

Colossians 2:2b (nKJV):
attaining to all riches
of the full assurance of understanding, to the
knowledge of the mystery of God, both of
the Father and of Christ,

1 Chrinthians 2:7 (nKJV):
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,
the hidden wisdom which God ordained
before the ages for our glory.

Interesting, "before the ages". Well, then if
this wisdom of God was before the ages, it is
certainly before the Church Age.
And the infinite knowledge of God is incarnate
in Christ. And the infinite wisdome of God
which was incarnate in Christ is "for our glory".

How is it for our glory, we the saints of the Living
God, if have to go through the Tribulation period
as some nay-sayers promote?


9. Mystery of Inquity/Lawlessness

This mystery deals with Satan's ongoing
master plan to bring forth the Antichrist
in the End Times, yet the outcome is clear.
Will Jesus let His Church be around when
the Antichrist is punished on the earth?

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8a (nKJV):
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at
work; only He who now restrains will do so
until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, ... "

Interesting, this mystery is explained in the
pretribulation rapture book of the Bible:
2 Thessalonians. We repeat the timeline shown
in 2 Thessalonains that is clearly specified there:

1. The Church Age (with it's tribulation)
2. Day of Christ:
-2a. falling away; our gathering together to Him;
--removal of the restrainer
-2b. the revelation of the man of sin
-2c. the period of deception; the Tribulation
-2d. the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
-2e. the destruction of the man of sin

2 Thessalonians 3:2 (nKJV):
But the Lord is faithful, who will establish
you and guard you from the evil one.

And this is all summed up in one word:

'\o/' Maranatha! '\o/'


10. Mystery of Godliness

1 Timothy 3:16 (nKJV):
And without controversy great
is the mystery of Godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

And that is just what God had done up
to the time of the writing.
Later He will:

Rapture the Church, the Bride of Christ
Marry the Church in Heaven (Tribulation on earth)
Return to earth at the Second Advent
Destroy the Antichrist and bind Satan
Rule the earth on the Throne of David.


11. Mystery of the Seven Stars/Candlesticks

Revelation 1:20 (nKJV):
The mystery of the seven stars which you
saw in My right hand, and the seven golden
lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of
the seven churches, and the seven lampstands
which you saw are the seven churches.

Oh yes, Sweet Jesus! The 7-stars,
the 7-golden lampstands -- the Church age
in double completeness.
And when the church on earth is complete,
the Christ, Jesus, will rapture the church.
And the wedding supper of the Lamb will
take place in heaven as the Tribulation
takes place on earth.


12. Mystery, Babylon the Great:

This mystery forcasts the final
world apostate church of
the Tribulation after the Rapture.

Revelation 17:5 (nKJV), emphasis from the source:

And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY,
BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


13. Mystery of God

This mystery announces the conclusion of God's
program to consummate history during the
the last days of the voice of the seventh angel".

All the mystery prophecies concerning the
Kingdom of Christ will be fulfilled,
relevant to Israel
and the world leading to the reign of the Messiah.

Revelation 10:7 (nKJV):
but in the days of the sounding of the seventh
angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery
of God would be finished, as He declared
to His servants the prophets.

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed,

Your following quote supports a Post-Trib Rapture rather than a Pre-Trib Rapture:
_______________________________________________
"I've had several interesting discussions
with Messianic Jews. They are thrilled at the
prospects that when the last possible gentile
(Hebrew: "goy") comes to accept Jesus, the Messiah, as their personal savior -- then will Jesus resurrect/rapture/transform the saved to that time.

Then will come the Tribulation, with the purpose
of Jesus finally winning the Jews unto Himself".
________________________________________________

The "last possible gentile to accept Jesus as
Messiah, their savior" is one of the final
Martyrs coming out of the great tribulation
from every "nation, peoples, tribes and tongues".

These Martyrs come out from under the Altar and praise God and the Lamb "after the tribulation".
This happens just before Christ comes WITH them
to "gather the elect from earth to heaven" in
the days after the great tribualtion"! Mark 13:27
Christ is coming WITH

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed,

Christ is coming WITH ALL the Saints. I Thess.
3:13.

Futhermore, the wicked must be reaped before
the Sons of God are reaped in the Parables
you mention in Matt.13. Verse 30 states the
"tares must be reaped FIRST".

Your choice of Scripture proves a Post-Trib
Rapture rather than a Pre-Trib Rapture.
Mel

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Ed and Me4Him,

I note that neither of you has supported your
view that God STOPS dealing with the Church
at the beginning of Daniel's 70th Seven if that
is when He STARTS dealing with Israel.

It's all here.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- preach it!

Rapture1 - the event removing Gentile Age Saints from earth to heaven
Rapture2 - the changing of living saints to glorified bodies
Resurrection1 - The event where dead saints are raised from the grave
Resurrection2 - the changing of dead saints to glorified bodies
Resurrection3 - the Victory of Messiah Jesus over the grave

(On this BB 'Rapture1' and 'Resurrection1' are as used
by poster Me4Him; 'rapture2' and 'resurrection2' are as used
to be used by Ed Edwards before Me4Him showed up.)

I'm a pretrib and believe:
The Rapture1 Event is composed of a resurrection2 preceeding a rapture2.
The Resurrection1 Event is composed of a resurrection2 preceeding a rapture2.

Obviously Post-tribs do not believe in a 'Rapture1 Event';
some post-tribs beleive in a rapture2 at the Resurrection1 Event.

Mel Miller:

//Ed,

//Christ is coming WITH ALL the Saints. I Thess.
3:13.

//Futhermore, the wicked must be reaped before
the Sons of God are reaped in the Parables
you mention in Matt.13. Verse 30 states the
"tares must be reaped FIRST".

//Your choice of Scripture proves a Post-Trib
Rapture rather than a Pre-Trib Rapture.
Mel //

I accept that the scripture, I Thess. 3:13,
agrees that the Resurrection1 Event is composed of
a resurrection2 preceeding a rapture2.

BTW, Matthew 13:30 is in a parable.
I believe that men reap the tares for destruction before
they reap the wheat for storage in barns.
God's revealed plans elsewhere preclude that at the
last day God will resurrect the evil prior to the good.
This is shown clearly in Revelation chapter 20.
I'm not one to throw away or spiritualize Revelation chapter 20
because of my misunderstanding of the Kingdom parables in
Matthew Chapter 13.
Generically, parables contain deep spiritual truths
but not every reading by everybody who reads the parable is
going to be true. Where this parable appears to conflict with other
non-parable scripture, I will choose the non-parable scripture.
BTW, Revelation 20 is NOT the only scripture that appears to
conflict "the tares first" phrase in Matthew 13:30.

BTW, most scriputres in the Bible support either a pre-tribulation rapture1
or a post-tribulation resurrection1. Only a few specify both.
I used to talk about a 'pretribulation rapture/resurrection'
that would, of course, have been the pretrib rapture1 composed
of a rapture2 following a resurrection2.
For example, Daniel 12 talks like the resurrection of the good
happens at the same exact time as the resurrection of the evil
(and talks like not ALL will be resurrected). But Other scriptures
show all must be resurrect2ed (except those raptur2ed) to be judged.

I was standing a viewpoint of the south of Saint Kitts which looks
over toward Nevis. There are several small hills connected by
land that are the south end of the island St. Kitts. The other island,
Nevis, looks like the smaller hills in front that are on St. Kitts
FROM THAT VIEWPOINT.
We need to understand these variant perspectives,
if we are to get what God wants us
to get out of the prophetic writings of the Bible.

The first part of Daniel 12 clearly shows:
Many will be Resurrect2ed.
The resurrected are to be judged.

Other scriptures show:
Many will be Resurrect2ed.
The resurrected are to be judged.
There are multiple judgments and multiple resurrections.
All humans will be resurrected and judged.

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed Edwards,

I would like to submit that you are confusing
the acts of "reaping" and "resurrection"!!
_______________________________________________
Your quote:
"God's revealed plans elsewhere preclude that at the last day God will resurrect the evil prior to the good. This is shown clearly in Revelation chapter 20".
________________________________________________

You have overlooked the prior "reaping" by the
Son of Man in Rev. 14 of the wicked into the "winepress of God's great anger" PRIOR to the First Resurrection". The Son of Man, both
in Matt.13 and Rev.14, reaps the "tares of the
entire earth" before He resurrects the righteous
unto eternal life.

Ed, I am very disapointed that you state:

1. "Men reap tares" instead of the Son of Man.
2. "God elsewhere precludes that at the last
day He resurrects the evil prior to the good.
3. "Revelation 20 appears to conflict "the tares first" phrase in Matthew 13:30.

These 3 points, IMO, result in you convoluted
scheme of two raptures and three resurrections!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

In the rapture, Jesus reaps the "SAVED" off the earth, the "UNSAVED" remain on earth for the trib.

At Jesus second coming, the "ANGEL REAPERS" reap the "UNSAVED" off the earth, the "SAVED remain for the MK.

Jesus reaps saved, going up, heaven
Angel reap unsaved, going down, hell

Jesus reaps, unsaved remain behind (trib)
Angel reap, saved remain behind (MK)

Jesus reaps, start of trib
Angel reap, end of trib.

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

Now, my friend, you are taking the forbidden
liberty of "adding" to the Scripture in the
Book of Revelation. This action has a "curse"!

Angels do not reap the "unsaved to Hell at the
second coming". They remain in the graves until
the "second death" which occurs exactly 1000
years after the First Resurrection.

In your scheme, you have the "Second Death"
occurring in 3000 AD, or 993 years after the
Rapture of 2011. You "cut short" the Second
Death by 7 years to "fit" your date-setting
which is also not according to Scripture!!!

The Rapture/Resurrection will occur on the
Day Christ appears from heaven to "raise up
every beliver on the Last Day" and also to
"gather the Elect from earth to heaven and
to send the angels to gather them out of all
extremities of the heavenS" at the same time!
John 6:38-40; Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:29-31.

That is the Day "God brings all the souls of
those that sleep in Jesus WITH Him and then
catches up all the (TRib) Saints who survive
WITH them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air".

I have quoted the Scripture that supports
Paul's requirement that "ALL THE SAINTS are
coming WITH Jesus Christ AT HIS PRESENCE"!!
I Thess.4:13-17 takes place IMMEDIATELY
BEFORE I Thess.3:13. READ IT AND LET US
COMFORT ONE ANOTHER that Trib-Saints are
among the Elect.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

I should make a correction to my math.
I wrote: "In your scheme, you have the "Second Death" occurring in 3000 AD, or 993 years after the Rapture of 2011."

To be correct according to your charts, your
view not only postpones the resurrection of
those who "are alive" at the Rapture but also
makes the Millennium last 1007 years instead
of just 1000 years.

Paul does NOT say the Rapture is ONLY for
those who are alive, while the dead in Christ
must wait 7 more years for the resurrection!!

Paul states that "those who are alive and who
remain until the Rapture will be caught up to
meet the dead in Christ" at the same time.

Your view utterly denies the teaching of Paul
that "all the Saints will come with Jesus at
His Presence". Your view separates the Rapture
and the First Resurrection by seven years!!!!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net
of

 

[Mel Miller]

Sorry Me4Him,

I wrote:
"To be correct according to your charts, your
view not only postpones the resurrection of
those who "are alive" at the Rapture but also
makes the Millennium last 1007 years instead
of just 1000 years".

Again, I correct myself. The "dead in Christ"
will arise at the same time as the living
go up in the Rapture. The "dead in Christ"
include tribulation Saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mel

 

[Mel Miller]

Sorry Me4Him,

I wrote:
"To be correct according to your charts, your
view not only postpones the resurrection of
those who "are alive" at the Rapture but also
makes the Millennium last 1007 years instead
of just 1000 years".

Again, I correct myself. The "dead in Christ"
will arise at the same time as the living
go up in the Rapture. The "dead in Christ"
include tribulation Saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mel

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

Now, my friend, you are taking the forbidden
liberty of "adding" to the Scripture in the
Book of Revelation. This action has a "curse"!

Angels do not reap the "unsaved to Hell at the
second coming". They remain in the graves until
the "second death" which occurs exactly 1000
years after the First Resurrection.

Mt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

We're talking about the "living", not the dead, being "Separated". (Wheat/tares)

No unsaved dead are resurrected at any time until the GWT.

In your scheme, you have the "Second Death"
occurring in 3000 AD, or 993 years after the
Rapture of 2011. You "cut short" the Second
Death by 7 years to "fit" your date-setting
which is also not according to Scripture!!!

Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: (MK, Seventh day)

and after that (seventh day) he must be loosed a little season.

Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired,(in the Eighth day) Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Re 20:11 And I saw a great white throne,

The Rapture/Resurrection will occur on the
Day Christ appears from heaven to "raise up
every beliver on the Last Day" and also to
"gather the Elect from earth to heaven and
to send the angels to gather them out of all
extremities of the heavenS" at the same time!
John 6:38-40; Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:29-31.

Wrong, Jesus has a Bride (Church) and God has a Bride, (Israel) the "Breach/Divorce" between God and Israel is "Healed" "DURING" the trib, not before, there is not breach/divorce between Jesus/church.

Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, (God) which made a marriage for his son, (Jesus)

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you:

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce;

Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, "IN THE DAY" (trib) that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

That is the Day "God brings all the souls of
those that sleep in Jesus WITH Him and then
catches up all the (TRib) Saints who survive
WITH them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air".

I have quoted the Scripture that supports
Paul's requirement that "ALL THE SAINTS are
coming WITH Jesus Christ AT HIS PRESENCE"!!

Yes, the pre trib rapture church will return with Jesus at the end of the trib, and those killed during the trib.

I Thess.4:13-17 takes place IMMEDIATELY
BEFORE I Thess.3:13. READ IT AND LET US
COMFORT ONE ANOTHER that Trib-Saints are
among the Elect.

Those verse describe the church rapture, the only two "Rapture" during the trib are the "two Witnesses".

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
[QB] Sorry Me4Him,

I wrote:
"To be correct according to your charts, your
view not only postpones the resurrection of
those who "are alive" at the Rapture but also
makes the Millennium last 1007 years instead
of just 1000 years".

Again, I correct myself. The "dead in Christ"
will arise at the same time as the living
go up in the Rapture. The "dead in Christ"
include tribulation Saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mel

Jesus rapture only the Church, be they Jew/Gentiles, the breach between God and Israel isn't "healed" until the trib, this is one reason why they (Jews) enter the trib and the church doesn't.

Israel was "First" with God, then they rejected Jesus and became "Last", the church became "First",

However, Israel will be restored to "FIRST".

Mt 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

The "trinity" "Divides the word of God" (God/Jesus) and explains the Bible.

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

The point above that you support with Scripture is when you ADMIT that Trib-Martyrs come with
"ALL THE SAINTS" on the same Day and at the same time Jesus comes, as He said, "immediately aftr
the great tribulation".

You write:
"Yes, the pre trib raptured church will return with Jesus at the end of the trib, and those killed during the trib". You actually ADMIT
the Trib-Martyred Saints come WITH Jesus on
the same day and at the same time.

But you have NOT yet supported with Scripture your theory that Jesus will "marry His Bride seven years before God re-marries Israel"!!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net