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My Sheep Hear My Voice

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Nov 4, 2005.

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  1. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    Mark,

    Yes, I would say if you love Jesus Christ and believe in Him, it is absolute proof the Father has and does love you.

    KJB
     
    #21 King James Bond, Nov 6, 2005
  2. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    King James Bond,

    Jesus said,

    "the Father himself loveth you because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #22 Mark Osgatharp, Nov 6, 2005
  3. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Mark,

    Did God love you before you loved Him, and believed?
     
    #23 whatever, Nov 6, 2005
  4. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Whatever,

    God loves all men with a general love and offers His love to all men. But it is evident from the context that the love of which Jesus spoke was His particular redeeming love for the elect.

    And with that understanding, I say that God did not love me in that way until I believed on Him. Which is to say I was not elected until I met the condition of election which was faith in Him.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #24 Mark Osgatharp, Nov 6, 2005
  5. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Mark,

    That's not what Paul told the Romans (see ch. 5). He told them that the love that has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit is the same love that sent Christ to the cross on our behalf while we were still sinners. I think you are reading too much into that passage from John.
     
    #25 whatever, Nov 6, 2005
  6. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Whatever,

    That is actually not what Romans says. Romans says that God shed His love abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost. That is what makes His love particular and redeeming in contrast to His general love for all mankind.

    As for what He did "while we were yet sinners" is commended His love toward us by giving Christ to die for us. That does not mean God loves a lost man in the same way he loves a saved man. It means that God displayed His ability to love by giving Christ as a sacrifice for our sins.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #26 Mark Osgatharp, Nov 6, 2005
  7. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    I'm not sure why you'd say that God's love poured into "our" hearts in verse 5 means His particular love for the elect, but His love for "us" in verse 8 means His general love for all of mankind, unless you were trying to prove a point.
     
    #27 whatever, Nov 6, 2005
  8. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Whatever,

    The reason I say that God's love shed abroad in our hearts is His particular love for the elect is that He has not done that for all man. The reason I say His love in giving Christ to die is His general love for all men is because the Bible says Christ,

    "tasted death for every man"

    and,

    "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son."

    Why don't you go on and read the whole text which says that since we have been reconciled to God he loves us "MUCH MORE"?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #28 Mark Osgatharp, Nov 6, 2005
  9. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Mark,

    Why interpret what Paul tells the Romans about God's love for 'us' in this passage based on what another writer said to the Hebrews, or on what Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3? Sure there's a general aspect to the death of Christ asserted elsewhere in the Bible. What makes you think that's the aspect that Paul was speaking of in verse 8? I don't see a reason in the passage to think that Paul moved from discussing God's particular love for the elect to His general love for all.

    Where does it go on to say that He loves us "much more"? It says that since we have been justified, "much more" shall we be saved from God's wrath. It says that since we are reconciled, "much more" will we be saved by Christ's life. But I don't see where it says that He loves us "much more" since we have been reconciled.
     
    #29 whatever, Nov 6, 2005
  10. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Yes, but look at what you said: into which any man who will put His trust in the Lord is invited.

    Your statement was incorrect inasumuch as you said that any man who will trust is invited. The truth is that all are invited, and any man who trusts is placed.

    You had the invitation after the belief. It comes before.
     
    #30 Pastor Larry, Nov 7, 2005
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