ccrobinson
Active Member
Ok, I'll bite. Why did you pick Gordon over Johnson as one of the top two?
Considering how poorly Gordon runs at Texas, Atlanta, and places like that, I'm going to amend my top two and say that Biffle is better than Gordon.
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NASCAR is back, part II
- Thread starter Dan Todd
- Start date
Considering how poorly Gordon runs at Texas, Atlanta, and places like that, I'm going to amend my top two and say that Biffle is better than Gordon.
Hey PastorSBC,
I see your point and I understand your argument for Gordon and Stewart.
I'm not basing my argument on statistics because I am not saying who the best drivers of the last 5-10 years are. I am observing the drivers who are out there right now and I am saying who I think is the most skilled.
It's kindof like someone who might have said in 1980 that they thought Dale Earnhardt was the best driver they had ever seen. There was no history to demonstrate that this was true and other competitors on the track were much more accomplished. But their observation proved to be arguably true in time. I think Biffle has the skill set to be the dominate driver of the next few years. I think Gordon is the best driver of the last 10 years, hands-down, and I think he often shows flashes that he still has it.
I see your point and I understand your argument for Gordon and Stewart.
I'm not basing my argument on statistics because I am not saying who the best drivers of the last 5-10 years are. I am observing the drivers who are out there right now and I am saying who I think is the most skilled.
It's kindof like someone who might have said in 1980 that they thought Dale Earnhardt was the best driver they had ever seen. There was no history to demonstrate that this was true and other competitors on the track were much more accomplished. But their observation proved to be arguably true in time. I think Biffle has the skill set to be the dominate driver of the next few years. I think Gordon is the best driver of the last 10 years, hands-down, and I think he often shows flashes that he still has it.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
swaimj,
I agree that Biffle is a good driver and he very well may dominate things over the next few years.
I think Tony Stewart is the most skilled driver right now on the track. There is not a track out there that he cannot win. He has to be considered a favorite every week they race. And as someone else said on here earlier, no one gets more out of their car and their crew than Stewart.
I agree that Biffle is a good driver and he very well may dominate things over the next few years.
I think Tony Stewart is the most skilled driver right now on the track. There is not a track out there that he cannot win. He has to be considered a favorite every week they race. And as someone else said on here earlier, no one gets more out of their car and their crew than Stewart.
ccrobinson
Active Member
I don't know if you guys read David Poole, but if you don't, you should. I love this quote from his latest column.
Quite honestly, I wish the All-Star Crashfest would go away. I could not possibly care less about how much money they make for winning the race than I already do.
Next year, I think they should make everybody drive a 1975 AMC Pacer on a 1/4 dirt track. It will be a demolition derby type of event, much like last night's "race", and the last guy with a car that moves wins a pepperoni pizza.
The AllStar Crashfest is the most meaningless event in the entire motorsports world.
This quote applies to both Fox's and NBC's pre-race shows every week.
Quite honestly, I wish the All-Star Crashfest would go away. I could not possibly care less about how much money they make for winning the race than I already do.
Next year, I think they should make everybody drive a 1975 AMC Pacer on a 1/4 dirt track. It will be a demolition derby type of event, much like last night's "race", and the last guy with a car that moves wins a pepperoni pizza.
The AllStar Crashfest is the most meaningless event in the entire motorsports world.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
That is a good quote and it was kind like pulling teeth. But what is a station to do for all that time during a rain delay? They were in a tough spot.
I like the all star race.
So did Kennseth get his revenge on Stewart for Daytonna?
I like the all star race.
So did Kennseth get his revenge on Stewart for Daytonna?
I have attended the all-star race 5-6 times over the years. I like it. If NASCAR would put more points on winning the weekly races, perhaps the drivers would always drive as hard as they do in the all-star race.
I was unable to watch the race this year. What happened between Kenseth and Stewart?
I was unable to watch the race this year. What happened between Kenseth and Stewart?
ccrobinson
Active Member
ESPN used to show the previous year's race if they expected a lengthy delay. Showing a race is better than the "pure drivel" that they show now during a rain delay.
And, if ESPN expected that it would take a long time to dry the track, they would tell us that straight out. Fox has obviously instructed Mike Joy to do everything he can to keep us watching, including leading us to believe that a track can be dried quickly.
Tony got a run on Matt going into turn 1. Matt tried to block him, but Tony was far enough along that Matt couldn't block. Tony kept his foot in it, pulled up alongside and then either Matt turned left or Tony turned right. The end result is they both hit the wall.
Tony went directly to his trailer. Berggren interviewed Matt and he blamed it all on Tony, but his explanation was pure nonsense. A few minutes later, Tony came out of his trailer, basically called BS on Kenseth's explanation, blamed the wreck on Matt and said "If he thinks that's what happened, he's messed up in the head." He then walked away with a smirk.
Yep. There are 2 phrases, "points racing" and "big-picture racing", that I absolutely detest. They're both the product of the current points system.
Before FIA revamped it (and shame on them for doing so, btw), the F1 points system was the best.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
The wreck seemed to me to be completely Kennseth's fault. And I am quite sure he had Daytonna on his mind when it happened. But that is racing and it sure makes for some interesting chats and tv.
Maybe instead of an all-star race they could hold a demolition derby. Every driver would bring his most badly wrecked car from the previous year and they could run into each other for a few hours til they have a last man standing. We'll call it the Smoking Heap Challenge!
ccrobinson
Active Member
ccrobinson
Active Member
I really don't have much to say about the Coke 600. I missed most of the race, but it seemed fairly competitive. At one point, I saw there were 37 lead changes, but I don't know if those were from on-track passing, or pit road passing. There were some exciting moments of 3-wide racing, always risky at Charlotte, especially off of T4.
I chuckled at Kyle Busch, coming thiissss close to apologizing, but not actually doing so, for acting like a doofus. I wonder if actions like that are why so many don't like the Busch's?
I know this thread is supposed to be Nascar, but there were other important events last Sunday.
The Indy 500 was excellent. Even though Wheldon led over 100 laps, there was some quality racing throughout the event. Nobody does it like Sam Hornish, Jr in winning races by hundredths of seconds. He's won 4 of 5 races now by less than a tenth of a second.
Young Marco was so impressive on Sunday, but he learned a hard lesson about racing. I think this quote tells the story.
"I thought I had won it", he admitted.
Until that checkered flag falls, the race is never over. Tough way to learn that lesson.
BTW, I've heard questions about when/if Marco is going to race Nascar. Utter nonsense. He's not going Nascar racing. If he turns out to be as impressive everywhere else as he was at Indy, then he'll be racing F1 in 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see him follow in the footsteps of Villeneuve and Montoya, guys who won the Indy 500 and went F1 racing the next year.
Speaking of F1, was anybody else switching back and forth between Indy (ABC) and Monaco (CBS)? Nobody really cruises to a win in F1 (or any other type of racing), but after Raikkonen fell out, Fred came pretty close to cruising to victory in the "crown jewel" F1 event. Shame on the 7 time champion, Schumacher, for his bush league tactic during qualifying. The cobbler holds every major record in F1 racing, but he will never be considered the greatest F1 driver ever because of garbage like that.
Monaco, Indy, Charlotte. What a fantastic day and night of racing.
I chuckled at Kyle Busch, coming thiissss close to apologizing, but not actually doing so, for acting like a doofus. I wonder if actions like that are why so many don't like the Busch's?
I know this thread is supposed to be Nascar, but there were other important events last Sunday.
The Indy 500 was excellent. Even though Wheldon led over 100 laps, there was some quality racing throughout the event. Nobody does it like Sam Hornish, Jr in winning races by hundredths of seconds. He's won 4 of 5 races now by less than a tenth of a second.
Young Marco was so impressive on Sunday, but he learned a hard lesson about racing. I think this quote tells the story.
"I thought I had won it", he admitted.
Until that checkered flag falls, the race is never over. Tough way to learn that lesson.
BTW, I've heard questions about when/if Marco is going to race Nascar. Utter nonsense. He's not going Nascar racing. If he turns out to be as impressive everywhere else as he was at Indy, then he'll be racing F1 in 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see him follow in the footsteps of Villeneuve and Montoya, guys who won the Indy 500 and went F1 racing the next year.
Speaking of F1, was anybody else switching back and forth between Indy (ABC) and Monaco (CBS)? Nobody really cruises to a win in F1 (or any other type of racing), but after Raikkonen fell out, Fred came pretty close to cruising to victory in the "crown jewel" F1 event. Shame on the 7 time champion, Schumacher, for his bush league tactic during qualifying. The cobbler holds every major record in F1 racing, but he will never be considered the greatest F1 driver ever because of garbage like that.
Monaco, Indy, Charlotte. What a fantastic day and night of racing.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I watched the Indy 500 and it was a great race and finish. I thought Hornish, Jr lost his chance when he couldn't get around him the first attempt and fell back.
It will be fun to see how good Marco will be.
I was glad to see someone other than Jimmie Johnson win the 600. Kahne is slowly becoming a favorite of mine. I like how he drives and I like how he carries himself off the track. It was nice to hear him give props to Bill Elliot after the race as well.
I was very irritated with Robby Gordon spinning our Dale Jarrett in the first couple laps of the race. He can be such an idiot at times. I cannot think of anything more frustrating in racing that to get spun out like that at the beginning of a race when it was completely uncalled for.
It will be fun to see how good Marco will be.
I was glad to see someone other than Jimmie Johnson win the 600. Kahne is slowly becoming a favorite of mine. I like how he drives and I like how he carries himself off the track. It was nice to hear him give props to Bill Elliot after the race as well.
I was very irritated with Robby Gordon spinning our Dale Jarrett in the first couple laps of the race. He can be such an idiot at times. I cannot think of anything more frustrating in racing that to get spun out like that at the beginning of a race when it was completely uncalled for.
The boys have been gearing up for months to run 600 miles and there's DJ laying against the wall with 597 miles to go. I would've left the track, too.
My favorite part of the 600? Hearing those cherished words, "Gordon's in the wall.":thumbsup: It made my day.
Indy was a grand show. I thought for sure Marco was going to win in his first attempt. How did Hornish catch and pass him? Amazing.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
padredurand said:My favorite part of the 600? Hearing those cherished words, "Gordon's in the wall.":thumbsup: It made my day.
How true, how true! ! !
raise: :thumbsup:ccrobinson
Active Member
In the last couple of weeks, I've lamented the modern state of racing and stated that the IRL puts on a better show than Nascar. So, of course, the Nascar boys go out and have the better race at Dover in which there was real racing and more on-track lead changes than pit road lead changes.
I'm not a big fan of McMurray, so I have no problem with Kenseth passing him with 3 to go. McMurray v. Harvick was outstanding. I was annoyed enough by DW yet again openly rooting for a driver that I emailed Fox about it. Other commentators, including Larry Mac, can show excitement about racing without rooting for a specific driver. Why can't DW? I have to say, as annoying as it is for him to root for a driver, it is funny when that driver loses the race.
BTW, I don't think it's been mentioned here yet, but what do you think about Toyota entering Cup racing? Is it the end of the Nascar world as we know it? Will there be havoc, chaos, dogs and cats living together once the green flag drops on the 2007 Daytona 500? Will you stop watching Nascar because of Toyota? Do you think Toyota will come in, outspend everybody, and completely dominate Cup racing?
In short, my answers are:
Don't care that much. Having Michael Waltrip and Bill Davis as Toyota's principle car owners doesn't impress me.
Yes, things will change. Doesn't necessarily mean things will get worse.
No. The chaos starts in 2008.
No. If Nascar hasn't chased me away yet due to killing the Southern 500, parade-racing, big-picture-points racing, aero-push, aero-matching, the Chase and 2/18/01, I doubt that I'll stop watching just because of Toyota.
No. See Toyota's F1 effort. They are nothing short of abysmal every week.
I'm not a big fan of McMurray, so I have no problem with Kenseth passing him with 3 to go. McMurray v. Harvick was outstanding. I was annoyed enough by DW yet again openly rooting for a driver that I emailed Fox about it. Other commentators, including Larry Mac, can show excitement about racing without rooting for a specific driver. Why can't DW? I have to say, as annoying as it is for him to root for a driver, it is funny when that driver loses the race.
BTW, I don't think it's been mentioned here yet, but what do you think about Toyota entering Cup racing? Is it the end of the Nascar world as we know it? Will there be havoc, chaos, dogs and cats living together once the green flag drops on the 2007 Daytona 500? Will you stop watching Nascar because of Toyota? Do you think Toyota will come in, outspend everybody, and completely dominate Cup racing?
In short, my answers are:
Don't care that much. Having Michael Waltrip and Bill Davis as Toyota's principle car owners doesn't impress me.
Yes, things will change. Doesn't necessarily mean things will get worse.
No. The chaos starts in 2008.
No. If Nascar hasn't chased me away yet due to killing the Southern 500, parade-racing, big-picture-points racing, aero-push, aero-matching, the Chase and 2/18/01, I doubt that I'll stop watching just because of Toyota.
No. See Toyota's F1 effort. They are nothing short of abysmal every week.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I don't think Toyota is going to have that much impact atleast at first.
As much as I do not like like Jimmie Johnson, he and his team did a great job of working their way back up to get a top 10 finish. Seems like this just might be his year.
I saw something about a "car of tomorrow" NASCAR is testing. Anyone know what this is going to be like?
Oh, and why is there chaos coming in '08?
As much as I do not like like Jimmie Johnson, he and his team did a great job of working their way back up to get a top 10 finish. Seems like this just might be his year.
I saw something about a "car of tomorrow" NASCAR is testing. Anyone know what this is going to be like?
Oh, and why is there chaos coming in '08?
I missed the race at Dover because I do not have cable. It sounds like it was a great finish. I also missed seeing the 600 at Charlotte and that one sounded like a pretty tight finish as well.
I'm not excited about Toyota coming into NASCAR, but I'm not worried about it either. Toyota will not dominate because NASCAR cannot afford to let them. They will be good for the sport in the long term because if fans resent them being there they will enjoy seeing them get beat. Within the next ten years Toyota is likely to be the number one selling car brand in the US, so NASCAR NEEDS to have Toyota on the track and Toyota needs to be in NASCAR. Toyota is VERY conscious of their image. They no more want to win 30 races per year in NASCAR than they want to take the blame/credit if/when GM declares bankruptcy.
Some day Honda and Nissan may join NASCAR as well.
I'm not excited about Toyota coming into NASCAR, but I'm not worried about it either. Toyota will not dominate because NASCAR cannot afford to let them. They will be good for the sport in the long term because if fans resent them being there they will enjoy seeing them get beat. Within the next ten years Toyota is likely to be the number one selling car brand in the US, so NASCAR NEEDS to have Toyota on the track and Toyota needs to be in NASCAR. Toyota is VERY conscious of their image. They no more want to win 30 races per year in NASCAR than they want to take the blame/credit if/when GM declares bankruptcy.
Some day Honda and Nissan may join NASCAR as well.
ccrobinson
Active Member
There's been a significant amount of time/money spent on testing the COT. It will have a larger "greenhouse", a blockier nose, and will be safer for the drivers in a crash. I haven't seen the latest version of the car, which has a wing in place of the spoiler, but one of the earlier versions was not easy on the eyes. The idea is to make the cars less dependent on aerodynamic grip, which should get rid of aero push, and make for better racing.
There are, and will continue to be, those who think the sky is going to fall because of Toyota in Cup racing. The point of my comment was to suggest that the sky will not fall in 2007, but if anything bad is going to come as a result of Toyota, it will happen at some point after 2007. In reality, I don't believe the sky will fall merely because of Toyota.
Exactly. Toyota was the target of the 4-team limit per car owner. They weren't targeting Roush with the rule, but getting him all upset about it was just a perk.
There wasn't much suspense in the Coke 600. At the end, Johnson and Kahne were running nearly identical lap times.
At Dover though, Harvick was able to reel McMurray in, and got under him several times. I thought Harvick had him passed several times, but Jamie used the old Harry Gant line really well and held him off every time. Kenseth was best on the bottom and was really the only guy capable of passing McMurray.
Dover was one of the best races of the season.
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Did you see that #24 car get tore up at Pocono? The boys and I were hootin' and hollarin' until we saw how hard Gordon hit that wall. As soon as Jeff climbed out of the car we commenced to hootin' again. That machine was all T-O-R-E up! Betcha Jeff will experience a new kinda hurt come morning.
That Hamlin kid was on a tear all day. Run a car backwards through the mud at 190 mph with a flat tire, make 11 pitstops and still win? That is a piece of driving.
That Hamlin kid was on a tear all day. Run a car backwards through the mud at 190 mph with a flat tire, make 11 pitstops and still win? That is a piece of driving.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
padre, I did the same thing. I was very glad to see Gordon get out of that car, that was an awful hit.
Hamlin had a great day, that car was outstanding.
Hamlin had a great day, that car was outstanding.