NASCAR is back, part II

[ccrobinson]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrobinson
No, you didn't. You suggested that Tony Stewart brake-checked Jeff Gordon at Martinsville. That's hardly saying that your driver was out-driven.

One thing doesn't establish a rule... especially when it is otherwise contradicted.

Right. The point is that despite your statement to the contrary, you have said no such thing about your driver being out-driven.


Quote:
Oh, you were being facetious? Great. If so, then you won't have any problem with an apology for counting me as one of the idiots who would condone throwing trash on the track.

Do what?

The original statement that led to this from Scott.

Who else's "haters" behave in such a way? Even though you and others might not do it, you are in agreement with the types who do.

I don't condone throwing trash on the track. Never have. Never will. Your implication is still not appreciated.

Several sweeping generalizations have been made here about Gordon fans never attributing his problems to his mistakes.

Those generalizations get made because on every single racing board/forum I've ever visited, including this one, I have yet to see a Gordon fan attribute Jeff's problems to his own mistakes.

Stewart's problems weren't all Newman's fault.

I totally agree and I should have made that more clear. Tony had no business driving that hard into the corner at that point in the race with a driver who was merely trying to get his lap back.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

OTOH, Stewart was whining pretty hard about Newman... Couldn't just be that he didn't drive like he should've could it? It is never his fault is it?... To turn the tables just a little.

Nice try, but you haven't been reading very well around here if you have not seen me say that Stewart was at fault for things. He has responsibility in that wreck just as Newman does. I also noted how funny I thought it was to hear Stewart complaining about Newman in his interview.

So you see I don't follow the lead of the Gordon fans around here. I can admit when the drivers I cheer for mess up.

 

[Scott J]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrobinson
No, you didn't. You suggested that Tony Stewart brake-checked Jeff Gordon at Martinsville. That's hardly saying that your driver was out-driven.

Quote:
One thing doesn't establish a rule... especially when it is otherwise contradicted.

Right. The point is that despite your statement to the contrary, you have said no such thing about your driver being out-driven.

So now I'm a liar? I have most certainly admitted that Gordon has been outdriven. In fact, that is implicit in my posts about his finally beginning to get it.

He has not driven aggressively enough to keep up with Stewart, Busch, et al. Is that good enough for you? Probably not. You'll probably follow this post up by saying again that I don't fault Gordon for his losses.

 

[Scott J]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott J
OTOH, Stewart was whining pretty hard about Newman... Couldn't just be that he didn't drive like he should've could it? It is never his fault is it?... To turn the tables just a little.


Nice try, but you haven't been reading very well around here if you have not seen me say that Stewart was at fault for things.

Did he? Do you continue to be a fan though he engages in exactly the same behavior you condemn Gordon fans of doing here?

So you see I don't follow the lead of the Gordon fans around here. I can admit when the drivers I cheer for mess up.

For the incident in question, I think Gordon was responsible but did not mess up. Kennseth was driving aggressively to block Gordon. Rather than take it, he didn't lift and got into Kennseth enough to spin him. He did what Stewart, Biffle, Busch, et al would have done had Gordon been blocking them... and much less than Kennseth did to Gordon when the 24 was just as good as the 17. Kennseth has saved worse hits than that but didn't this time. My suspicion is that he thought Gordon wouldn't do it being on probation.

Kennseth couldn't claim that he got wrecked out with a winning car because he knew he didn't. Gordon OTOH had a car good enough to win when Kennseth put him out. Those are just facts.

 

[Scott J]

Quote:
Who else's "haters" behave in such a way? Even though you and others might not do it, you are in agreement with the types who do.

I don't condone throwing trash on the track. Never have. Never will. Your implication is still not appreciated.

Are you saying that you don't despise Gordon?

My point was and is this: No one else's "haters" have a subgroup that have shown low enough class to do what those people did.

Do you or do you not agree with the feelings those people have about Gordon?

 

[Scott J]

Those generalizations get made because on every single racing board/forum I've ever visited, including this one, I have yet to see a Gordon fan attribute Jeff's problems to his own mistakes.

Gordon didn't make the chase last year because of his own mistakes. He didn't get his car right. He didn't make the right in race adjustments. He didn't communicate well to the CC. He didn't even concentrate on racing like he should have. He was caught up in the sideshow.

Most importantly, he let the style of the sport pass him by without adjusting to it. Junior may be doing the same thing. You can't be nice and win races any more. In spite of his lament, Stewart has led pack to end the notion of "give and take". Guys who drive aggressively are winning. Teams that are aggressive are winning.

The 24 and Gordon were late to that dance with no good excuse. They sat around and watched the 48 and 5 become successful while apparently refusing to change methods.

I for one hope that Gordon either continues to be aggressive or else hangs it up.

 

[ccrobinson]

Well, this is a first for me, seeing a Gordon fan admit that his driver isn't perfect. Cool. I now stand corrected and can't say that I've never seen that anymore.

Are you saying that you don't despise Gordon?

My point was and is this: No one else's "haters" have a subgroup that have shown low enough class to do what those people did.

Do you or do you not agree with the feelings those people have about Gordon?

#1, yes, I don't like Jeff Gordon.

#2, maybe nobody else's "haters" have a subgroup like that today, but Dale Earnhardt had a subgroup like that back in the day.

#3, agreeing with others that don't like Gordon doesn't equate to condoning throwing trash on the track.

My suspicion is that he thought Gordon wouldn't do it being on probation.

I would be surprised if this were the case. If Kurt Busch can wreck somebody to win while on probation and nothing happens, then I don't know why he would think something would happen to Jeff Gordon in a similar situation.

 

[ccrobinson]

What in the world has happened to Yates Racing? It was not that long ago that everyone was talking about Yates horsepower and they won with Jarrett. Seems they have fallen off really quick.

A blog has been posted on thatsracin.com discussing this very question. I didn't know it, but Elliott Sadler announced that he's leaving RYR at the end of this year. It seems that something is going wrong at RYR.

There has definitely been a revolving door at RYR over the last few years, and this can't have helped. I think the "alliance" with Roush has probably hurt RYR in that the RYR engines no longer have a horsepower advantage they enjoyed for many years.

When everybody's special, then nobody's special.

Ultimately, I think it's a case of everybody else catching up to RYR, surpassing them, and now RYR is in the position of trying to catch back up. I don't know what the answer is to how they get back on top, but a good first step would be for Robert Yates to uninstall the revolving door and get some stability and continuity back in his organization.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Gordon didn't make the chase last year because of his own mistakes. He didn't get his car right. He didn't make the right in race adjustments. He didn't communicate well to the CC. He didn't even concentrate on racing like he should have. He was caught up in the sideshow.

Most importantly, he let the style of the sport pass him by without adjusting to it. Junior may be doing the same thing. You can't be nice and win races any more. In spite of his lament, Stewart has led pack to end the notion of "give and take". Guys who drive aggressively are winning. Teams that are aggressive are winning.

The 24 and Gordon were late to that dance with no good excuse. They sat around and watched the 48 and 5 become successful while apparently refusing to change methods.

I for one hope that Gordon either continues to be aggressive or else hangs it up.

Wow, very good. I am impressed. I have not seen that before either.

There is no doubt Gordon is one of the top drivers in the series. Although I am not a fan, as I have stated before I would love to see a duel down the stretch between Gordon and Stewart for the Cup.

 

[Friend of God]

There is no doubt Gordon is one of the top drivers in the series. Although I am not a fan, as I have stated before I would love to see a duel down the stretch between Gordon and Stewart for the Cup.

Sounds good to me! It would make the race for the cup much more interesting. IMHO

 

[Scott J]

This may be the year for something like that.

I like what I've seen from the 24 team lately. They've won a couple and very well could have won another if they hadn't gotten caught up in a wreck. Last week, they kept battling back through some tough breaks.

If they really do have their 1.5 mile program in shape then they just might be there. If Chicago was a fluke then they'll probably be on the outside looking in again.

 

[ccrobinson]

If they really do have their 1.5 mile program in shape then they just might be there. If Chicago was a fluke then they'll probably be on the outside looking in again.

Good point. When Junior won at Chicago last year, I thought that they had turned their 1.5-2 mile programs around, but the rest of the season showed that they hadn't.

 

[Scott J]

Will Junior be able to recover?

Will this be the first year the 400 pt rule comes into effect?

Alot of those guys right around 10th seem to be getting it together.

 

[ccrobinson]

Will Junior be able to recover?

I'm losing faith over here in Jr. and/or DEI. I have no confidence that Jr. can recover from these last 2 races.

Will this be the first year the 400 pt rule comes into effect?

Only if Jimmie follows historical trends and goes into his summer swoon.

"Four guys ended up having a bad day because one guy couldn't be a little patient and use a little give-and-take," Stewart said.

The 99 car had a bad day because the biggest taker of all had no patience with the 07. Tony has no credibility when it comes to patience on the track.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I expect Junior to recover and make the chase.

I don't know about the 400 rule, but I doubt it.

I was completely disgusted with Tony Stewarts actions on the track yesterday and his comments in the post race interview. He needs to get his head together if he is going to have a chance at another title. He is such a talented driver he does not need to resort to immature tactics. I thought for a moment that Robby Gordon had taken over his car.

 

[ccrobinson]

I thought for a moment that Robby Gordon had taken over his car.

:laugh:

Tony ought to just shut his pie hole when it comes to talking about patience on the track. There's nothing that drives race fans out of their tree more than driver hypocrisy.

 

[Friend of God]

Tony Stewart talking about patience is like a Priest giving marital counselling.:smilewinkgrin:

In his interview yesterday, Junior looked mad enough to bite the head off a ten-penny nail.

 

[swaimj]

I was completely disgusted with Tony Stewarts actions on the track yesterday and his comments in the post race interview. He needs to get his head together if he is going to have a chance at another title. He is such a talented driver he does not need to resort to immature tactics. I thought for a moment that Robby Gordon had taken over his car.

I know you like the ole' boy, so you're a big man to say this. I did not see the race yesterday, but the opinion writers have been unanimous in their condemnation of Stewart. His temper has cost him dearly this year.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I am a fan of Stewart, and I will continue to be a fan. However, I hope I can remain objective enough to realize when he is being immature and childish.

It should be a great remainder of the season with so many drivers capable of getting in the chase. I would still say Jimmie Johnson would have to be the favorite. However, I think Kevin Harvick is driving really well recently and may make a serious push for the cup this year.

 

[Scott J]

How can you objectively realize that he is childish and immature but remain a fan?

BTW, I'm sorry that Edwards got caught up in it and do recognize the hypocrisy of Stewart but there was some truth to his comments. The young guys (to a great extent by following the example of guys like Stewart) are extremely aggressive on the track. "Give and take" isn't close enough to the edge for them.

Maybe next time Stewart will make sure he only effects his intended target? I thought it odd that he specifically mentioned Gordon when talking about guys who "give and take"... since they have had their own issues over wanting the same piece of asphalt.

Could it be that some of the older guys are now colluding to reign in some of the younger guys? Could we be seeing Dale Earnhardt Sr by committee from Gordon and Stewart?