NASCAR is back, part II

[PastorSBC1303]

How can you objectively realize that he is childish and immature but remain a fan?

All the drivers have their moments, so if I am to select who to cheer for by this definition then I will stop watching NASCAR altogether.

I am a fan of Tony Stewart because I think when you push all the other stuff away he is a great driver, perhaps the greatest driver in the cup today. I also like him because he is a true "Indiana" boy and I grew up in Indiana as well. Unlike Jeff Gordon who claims to have some type of past in Indiana, yet he is really a California kid. I also like Stewart because of him being with Joe Gibbs. I am a fan of Gibbs.

I could ask how you can remain a fan of Jeff Gordon since he is such a cry baby and whiner.

BTW, I'm sorry that Edwards got caught up in it and do recognize the hypocrisy of Stewart but there was some truth to his comments. The young guys (to a great extent by following the example of guys like Stewart) are extremely aggressive on the track. "Give and take" isn't close enough to the edge for them.

I agree with this point and was waiting for someone else to make it so I would not appear as if I was just supporting Stewart without being objective. There is truth to what he says and he has contributed to the problem as much as anyone. Hopefully he is realizing the need to crank it down a tad.

Maybe next time Stewart will make sure he only effects his intended target? I thought it odd that he specifically mentioned Gordon when talking about guys who "give and take"... since they have had their own issues over wanting the same piece of asphalt.

That early in the race I do not think Stewart should have done anything about the incident. He has to realize the bigger picture. He was to save a good day out of the ordeal, but next time he may not be able to do that and he find himself on the outside of the chase.

Even though Stewart and Gordon have had many issues over the last few years, I think there is a mutual respect between the 2 as they realize how good the other guy is on the track.

Could it be that some of the older guys are now colluding to reign in some of the younger guys? Could we be seeing Dale Earnhardt Sr by committee from Gordon and Stewart?

I have wondered the same thing, especially with Stewart's comments about this not happening if #3 was still on the track. It could be happening, but I don't know at this point how effective it will be.

 

[ccrobinson]

Could we be seeing Dale Earnhardt Sr by committee from Gordon and Stewart?

Possibly. I don't know of any other driver(s) that has/have the credibility to do it.

I could ask how you can remain a fan of Jeff Gordon since he is such a cry baby and whiner.

:laugh:

BTW, you know how Edwards said that if it weren't for the blah, blah, blah, that Tony would be bleeding on pit road? Yeah, whatever. It's a good thing Carl was wearing his dress-up jacket.

 

[swaimj]

Stewart released a statement today taking full responsibility for the wreck of Bowyer and Edwards.

I'm sure he'll do this again the next time he wrecks somebody!!! :tear:

 

[PastorSBC1303]

BTW, you know how Edwards said that if it weren't for the blah, blah, blah, that Tony would be bleeding on pit road? Yeah, whatever. It's a good thing Carl was wearing his dress-up jacket.

:thumbs: I agree.

 

[Friend of God]

Pushing, shoving, and fights in NASCAR?
Nooooooooooo!!:smilewinkgrin: :tongue3:

 

[Scott J]

All the drivers have their moments, so if I am to select who to cheer for by this definition then I will stop watching NASCAR altogether.

There is the matter of degrees.

I am a fan of Tony Stewart because I think when you push all the other stuff away he is a great driver, perhaps the greatest driver in the cup today.

That's true... and part of why when you couple his attitude with his talent, I pull against him.

Unlike Jeff Gordon who claims to have some type of past in Indiana, yet he is really a California kid.

He moved to Indiana pretty young but the last time I checked his bio says he's from CA.

I also like Stewart because of him being with Joe Gibbs. I am a fan of Gibbs.

I like Gibbs and still dislike Stewart. I wish I could pull for him but I just can't. I despise his attitude.

I could ask how you can remain a fan of Jeff Gordon since he is such a cry baby and whiner.

You'd have to give explicit proof... like we have of Stewart...

 

[Scott J]

Stewart released a statement today taking full responsibility for the wreck of Bowyer and Edwards.

I'm sure he'll do this again the next time he wrecks somebody!!! :tear:

And his comment concerning Edwards was something to the effect that he does stuff then apologizes and acts like that should be enough.

I had gained a tad of respect for Stewart when he wasn't trying to pretend.

 

[ccrobinson]

You'd have to give explicit proof

2005 Daytona 500
Jeff Gordon was leading on a restart and complained to his crew chief about drivers laying back on a restart to get a run on him. On a subsequent restart, Jeff Gordon wasn't leading, but he was clearly laying back on a restart to get a run on the leader.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

You'd have to give explicit proof...

Pull up the post race interview for any number of races over the last 10 years. Ccr pointed out a good one, but there are any number of similar times.

But thats ok, I wouldn't expect a Gordon fan to own up to the fact that their driver is a cry baby.

 

[Scott J]

Are you going to start that generalization non-sense again?

Does every complaint qualify someone as a cry-baby? If so, who isn't?

As for CCR's example, how is that being a cry baby? He complained. Nothing was said or done... that implies that breaking that particular rule in that particular race is acceptable.

Stewart's comments the other day would grandly qualify for the "cry baby" standard you've set... but I wouldn't characterize them that way. Hypocritical maybe... but he wasn't being a "cry baby".

 

[PastorSBC1303]

But thats ok, I wouldn't expect a Gordon fan to own up to the fact that their driver is a cry baby.

Told ya. :thumbsup:

 

[Scott J]

There you go again. You are soooo objective, huh?

You hate Gordon so his complaints constitute his being a cry baby. You like Stewarts so his apparently don't... In fact, if you were objective you'd call all of them cry babies if you are intent on hanging that monicker on Gordon. They all complain when things don't go their way and he is, objectively speaking, no worse than any of the rest.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

There you go again. You are soooo objective, huh?

What I said was and continues to be true. You will not admit that Gordon is a cry baby. That is ok, that is your right to do so.

I am objective enough to say straight out when the driver I like disgusts me by his actions and words. Something you never hear from Gordon fans.

Enough of this nonsense. We are not going to agree on this topic. So why continue?

You cheer for Gordon and I will cheer for Stewart and Dale Jr. May the best team win.

 

[Scott J]

What I said was and continues to be true. You will not admit that Gordon is a cry baby. That is ok, that is your right to do so.

What I said was and continues to be true. You will not admit that if Gordon's complaining constitutes being a cry baby then all of them are as well as virtually everyone here including you.

He certainly doesn't complain any more than Junior or Stewart. But with Gordon, you lose that supposed objectivity, huh? You despise him so any complaint he makes is whining while you don't notice the same behavior in other drivers.

Enough of this nonsense. We are not going to agree on this topic. So why continue?

Ask yourself that question. You are certainly entitled to hate Gordon. That doesn't make him a cry baby or anything else... nor does it mean that Gordon fans "never" do this, that, or the other.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

All of the drivers have their cry baby moments. But Gordon and the Busch brothers seem to have a copyright on the formula. I am also not the only one that holds that opinion.

Oh and I don't hate Gordon. So you can quit saying that. I just don't care for him, his team, his driving, etc.

 

[ccrobinson]

In 2 separate races at Bristol, Jeff Gordon bumps Rusty Wallace out of the way on the last lap to win. At Bristol in 2006, Jeff Gordon gets bumped by Matt Kenseth and is mad enough to shove him and get put on probation (whatever that means). It is completely irrelevant that we are talking about 2 different guys. What is relevant is that Jeff Gordon cries and complains when somebody does to him what he has done to somebody else more than once. Jeff Gordon cries and complains when somebody gets a perceived advantage on a restart, but he has no problem going out and doing it himself.

He complained. Nothing was said or done... that implies that breaking that particular rule in that particular race is acceptable.

You assume that a rule violation exists when there was no rule violation. Maybe the driver(s) he was/were complaining about were hanging back, but it wasn't so far back as to break any rule. Or, maybe he was just using that complaint as an excuse to set himself up with an advantage later in the race. If that's the case, then maybe it isn't whining, but it sure is weasel-like. Pick your poison.


Here's an example of somebody who did some dirty things on the track, but didn't whine when his own tactics came back to bite him on the rear.

In June 2000, Dale Earnhardt is leading at Pocono going into turn 3. He got bumped by Mayfield and lost the race. I listened to that race on radio and after it happened, spent the rest of the day mumbling under my breath about losing the race. So, what was Earnhardt's reaction to losing?

But he drove up alongside Mayfield on the cooldown lap, put his arm out the window and extended a finger. "I told him he was No. 1," Earnhardt said of the gesture.

"You don't ever have a win until the checkered flag falls," Earnhardt said. "All in all, it was a good day. We gained some points on Labonte."

Richard Childress said, ""He just knocked him out of the way to win. That's just racing. There'll be another day."

That, my friend, is the epitome of not whining about somebody doing to you what you've done to others.

I'll be happy to take Jeff off of my whiner list as soon as he stops complaining when others do unto him as he has done unto them.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

ccr good example.

I watched that race and remember those comments very well.

 

[Scott J]

All of the drivers have their cry baby moments. But Gordon and the Busch brothers seem to have a copyright on the formula. I am also not the only one that holds that opinion.

And I am sure that I am not the only one objective enough to realize that Gordon is no worse than Stewart, Earnhardt Jr, Jarrett, etc.

Just admit it... (you know like you accuse Gordon fans of being unable to do)... You don't like the guy. He grates on you so that makes you have a knee jerk bias against him whenever he speaks.

Look Junior grates on me. I don't like him. I think he's a punk.

I don't like Stewart. I consider him a hypocrite and a selfish, ego-maniacal jerk.

Oh and I don't hate Gordon. So you can quit saying that. I just don't care for him, his team, his driving, etc.

Come on now. Just be honest. You despise the guy. The sound of his voice makes you ill, right? That's probably why you think he's more of a cry baby.

 

[Scott J]

In 2 separate races at Bristol, Jeff Gordon bumps Rusty Wallace out of the way on the last lap to win. At Bristol in 2006, Jeff Gordon gets bumped by Matt Kenseth and is mad enough to shove him and get put on probation (whatever that means). It is completely irrelevant that we are talking about 2 different guys. What is relevant is that Jeff Gordon cries and complains when somebody does to him what he has done to somebody else more than once.

Cry and complain? Nope. He actually showed some competitive life for once in a long time. He shoved him... he didn't whine.

And FTR, there is a significant amount of difference between running up behind a better car and wrecking them out of the race and catching an inferior car and moving them over.

Gordon had the better car. Both he and Kennseth knew it. That's probably what hacked Gordon off so bad. It wasn't like they were the two leaders racing in the clear down to the finish him with a little bit less of a car trying to hold off a stronger Kennseth.

But... that's all water under the bridge now. Like I said, if that incident got his dander up for once then it was worth it.

Jeff Gordon cries and complains when somebody gets a perceived advantage on a restart, but he has no problem going out and doing it himself.

And Stewart doesn't? Earnhardt? Specifically Earnhardt has whined about "not gettin' any help" in the restrictor plate races and he's the first one to hang his "friends" out to dry when he doesn't need them any more.

Quote:
He complained. Nothing was said or done... that implies that breaking that particular rule in that particular race is acceptable.

You assume that a rule violation exists when there was no rule violation. Maybe the driver(s) he was/were complaining about were hanging back, but it wasn't so far back as to break any rule. Or, maybe he was just using that complaint as an excuse to set himself up with an advantage later in the race. If that's the case, then maybe it isn't whining, but it sure is weasel-like. Pick your poison.

You assume his guilt then convict him of your assumption.

The most likely is the most direct. He complained that they were laying back. No warnings were issued so he did the same thing.

I know you guys would rather him accept a disadvantage but that's hardly reasonable.

Here's an example of somebody who did some dirty things on the track, but didn't whine when his own tactics came back to bite him on the rear.

In June 2000, Dale Earnhardt is leading at Pocono going into turn 3. ...

So you'd rather see someone be a profane jerk than politely state their case? Maybe the problem is your preferences and not anything Gordon is doing per se.

That, my friend, is the epitome of not whining about somebody doing to you what you've done to others.

Same of the father as the son. He used to whine all the time that he couldn't get drafting help... then he'd betray those friends.

I'll be happy to take Jeff off of my whiner list as soon as he stops complaining when others do unto him as he has done unto them.

That's your opinion about the facts... not the facts themselves. He probably does do it on occasion but, like I said, he's no worse than guys you seem to favor. They all do what you just said... all of them.

 

[ccrobinson]

He shoved him... he didn't whine.

Whatever. Jeff Gordon bumps others out of the way, gets bumped himself, but throws a tantrum over it.

there is a significant amount of difference between running up behind a better car and wrecking them out of the race and catching an inferior car and moving them over.

You're trying to tell me that Gordon was that much better than Rusty in those 2 Bristol races? Nope, not buying that.

I know you guys would rather him accept a disadvantage but that's hardly reasonable.

What disadvantage? He complains about guys laying back that weren't. Perceived disadvantage does not equal actual disadvantage.

So you'd rather see someone be a profane jerk than politely state their case?

:laugh:

Evidently, shoving another driver is what passes for politeness in today's Cup racing.

Look Junior grates on me. I don't like him. I think he's a punk.

I don't like Geek-Boy. Never have and never will. I think he's a weasel and a cry-baby.

That's your opinion about the facts... not the facts themselves.

Jeff Gordon did shove Matt Kenseth, right? And he did it because Kenseth bumped him out of the way, right? And Jeff Gordon has bumped other guys out of the way before, right? I don't see how any conclusion can be drawn other than Gordon complains when others do unto him as he's done unto them, but I don't wear a Jeff Gordon t-shirt either.

Let me know if you want to continue this, Scott, because I'm all on-board with the Gordon-bashing! :wavey: :thumbs: