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NASCAR is back, part II
- Thread starter Dan Todd
- Start date
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I am not sure just one win should qualify a guy. But I do think someone with multiple wins like Kahne should be qualified.
I did not see the Bristol race. I was glad to see that Junior had a good night.
I did not see the Bristol race. I was glad to see that Junior had a good night.
ccrobinson
Active Member
I've heard that from other fans, and I confess that I don't understand the sentiment. I guess the idea is that consistency should be important, but I land on the side that says winning is more important when it comes to racing. Maybe the thought is that a team could win 1 race, spend the rest of the season doing R&D work, then show up and win the championship? I don't see how that would ever happen. Maybe the other idea is to keep the ringers out of the Chase?
David Poole has a great idea about this. His idea is to give the winner of a race a 500 point bonus for winning their first race of the season. This only applies to the first race he wins and no other race he might win. In so doing, the integrity of the season is intact because consistency is still important, but winning at least one race is imperative.
If this were in place right now, Kasey Kahne would be in the Chase and Mark Martin would be out. But, by winning at either California or Richmond, Mark Martin would be in and Kahne out. It's still not perfect, but at least the Top 10 wouldn't have a guy who hasn't won in at the expense of somebody who's won 4 times.
I could go either way, with the 500 point bonus, or an automatic entry by winning, but the current system stinks. I don't understand why Nascar didn't fix it going into 2006. Consider last year.
1) J Mayfield won on fuel-mileage at MIS and made it. (btw, have I mentioned that I despise fuel-mileage races?)
2) J Gordon won 3 races but was out.
3) D Earnhardt Jr won at Joliet but was out.
4) In 2005, 3 guys made the chase who had 0 wins going into it.
The problem here, as usual, is the current points system that doesn't reward the winner enough and heavily penalizes the driver for a bad day.
Is it worse to finish 31st or 41st? Who cares, right? A bad day is a bad day. Except it isn't. Some days are more bad than others. If you're a driver who gets wrecked by Jeff Green on lap 1, and you spend 50 laps getting your car fixed, you have to spend the rest of the day getting in everybody's way by driving your crippled racecar at the minimum speed for the next 200 laps, just because you need those 30 points. There is just too big of a penalty for a bad race. How many times have we heard drivers talk about their goal being to stay out of trouble? The penalty for a bad day is greater than the reward for winning. I just don't agree with this and never have.
BTW, did anybody watch the F1 race at Istanbul? It was a good race only because Schumacher and Alonso battled for the last 15 laps over who was going to get more points from finishing 2nd. It was good stuff. But, I get aggravated at F1 racing because there's usually very little passing. Today's F1 racing is about fuel loads and strategy and so much of the talent of the driver has been taken out of it. I found this statement at f1.com.
You mean to tell me that the tire engineers at Michelin and Bridgestone are going to decide the championship??? That makes no sense to me.
I like F1 racing, but it's never going to be good again until they take away the one thing that has made it so boring, traction control. I just hope and pray that Nascar never allows traction control.
David Poole has a great idea about this. His idea is to give the winner of a race a 500 point bonus for winning their first race of the season. This only applies to the first race he wins and no other race he might win. In so doing, the integrity of the season is intact because consistency is still important, but winning at least one race is imperative.
If this were in place right now, Kasey Kahne would be in the Chase and Mark Martin would be out. But, by winning at either California or Richmond, Mark Martin would be in and Kahne out. It's still not perfect, but at least the Top 10 wouldn't have a guy who hasn't won in at the expense of somebody who's won 4 times.
I could go either way, with the 500 point bonus, or an automatic entry by winning, but the current system stinks. I don't understand why Nascar didn't fix it going into 2006. Consider last year.
1) J Mayfield won on fuel-mileage at MIS and made it. (btw, have I mentioned that I despise fuel-mileage races?)
2) J Gordon won 3 races but was out.
3) D Earnhardt Jr won at Joliet but was out.
4) In 2005, 3 guys made the chase who had 0 wins going into it.
The problem here, as usual, is the current points system that doesn't reward the winner enough and heavily penalizes the driver for a bad day.
Is it worse to finish 31st or 41st? Who cares, right? A bad day is a bad day. Except it isn't. Some days are more bad than others. If you're a driver who gets wrecked by Jeff Green on lap 1, and you spend 50 laps getting your car fixed, you have to spend the rest of the day getting in everybody's way by driving your crippled racecar at the minimum speed for the next 200 laps, just because you need those 30 points. There is just too big of a penalty for a bad race. How many times have we heard drivers talk about their goal being to stay out of trouble? The penalty for a bad day is greater than the reward for winning. I just don't agree with this and never have.
BTW, did anybody watch the F1 race at Istanbul? It was a good race only because Schumacher and Alonso battled for the last 15 laps over who was going to get more points from finishing 2nd. It was good stuff. But, I get aggravated at F1 racing because there's usually very little passing. Today's F1 racing is about fuel loads and strategy and so much of the talent of the driver has been taken out of it. I found this statement at f1.com.
You mean to tell me that the tire engineers at Michelin and Bridgestone are going to decide the championship??? That makes no sense to me.
I like F1 racing, but it's never going to be good again until they take away the one thing that has made it so boring, traction control. I just hope and pray that Nascar never allows traction control.
ccrobinson
Active Member
There's another good article by Tom Higgins on thatsracin.com about how Nascar killed the Southern 500. I'm wearing my armband now (read the article). Destroying the Southern 500 was the absolute worst, bone-headed, stupid decision that Nascar has ever made.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Well, I'm sure that Scott isn't upset in the least that Stewart missed the Chase. :smilewinkgrin:
But, to continue flogging the deceased equine, there are now 2 guys in who didn't win a race and Stewart is out though he won twice. How many times does this have to happen for Nascar to do something about it?
Speaking of Tony, was anybody else surprised by his graciousness after the race?
Early in the race, the poll asked the question whether more points should be given for winning. Obviously they should, and that's been a weakness of the Latford point system from the beginning. However, the real flaw in the system continues to be overlooked, which is that having a bad day costs too much. It turns the system into one in which you avoid trouble more than try to win.
Speaking of TNT, what is up with 5 laps of racing, then going to commercial all night?
Kyle Busch can talk all he wants about how "... that was the tightest we'd been all night...", but the fact is that Kevin Harvick just outdrove him. Harvick was close enough off of T2 that Busch couldn't risk trying to block him, then Harvick drove hard into T3 and moved up the track just enough to push Busch out of his groove. That was the race.
Harvick shows again tonight that he does the best burnout in Nascar. He also has a good chance of being the first to win both of Nascar's top series in the same year, with the Busch championship a given.
Although I think the championship is a 3 car race between the 48, 17 and 29, I'm going to stick with the prediction I made after the Brickyard, that Jimmie Johnson will be the 2006 Cup champion. No surprise if Kenseth or Harvick wins it, but it will be a surprise if anybody else does.
But, to continue flogging the deceased equine, there are now 2 guys in who didn't win a race and Stewart is out though he won twice. How many times does this have to happen for Nascar to do something about it?
Speaking of Tony, was anybody else surprised by his graciousness after the race?
Early in the race, the poll asked the question whether more points should be given for winning. Obviously they should, and that's been a weakness of the Latford point system from the beginning. However, the real flaw in the system continues to be overlooked, which is that having a bad day costs too much. It turns the system into one in which you avoid trouble more than try to win.
Speaking of TNT, what is up with 5 laps of racing, then going to commercial all night?
Kyle Busch can talk all he wants about how "... that was the tightest we'd been all night...", but the fact is that Kevin Harvick just outdrove him. Harvick was close enough off of T2 that Busch couldn't risk trying to block him, then Harvick drove hard into T3 and moved up the track just enough to push Busch out of his groove. That was the race.
Harvick shows again tonight that he does the best burnout in Nascar. He also has a good chance of being the first to win both of Nascar's top series in the same year, with the Busch championship a given.
Although I think the championship is a 3 car race between the 48, 17 and 29, I'm going to stick with the prediction I made after the Brickyard, that Jimmie Johnson will be the 2006 Cup champion. No surprise if Kenseth or Harvick wins it, but it will be a surprise if anybody else does.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I am disappointed Stewart did not make it and agree Nascar needs to change that win thing.
I am picking Harvick to win the championship. I think he is peaking at a very good time.
I am picking Harvick to win the championship. I think he is peaking at a very good time.
Have hardly stopped smiling since... I only wish it could've been Junior too.ccrobinson said:
I'd agree with Pastor about Harvick though. Has anyone ever pulled a Busch/Cup double?
It didn't need to be changed last year when Gordon was shut out but does now that Stewart has been shut out?
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Scott J said:
When did anyone say that?
I like David Poole's idea of a 500 point bonus for the first win of the season. NASCAR WILL do something to put more emphasis on winning this coming year. I'm no Stewart fan, but I just don't think it's right that a multiple winner of races this year is out of the chase and Martin and Burton are in.
In the Chase, Kahne is my heart favorite because I am a MOPAR fan. My head favorite is Kenseth because the Chase is about consistency and Kenseth is the most consistent driver in the sport for pulling out good finishes.
In the Chase, Kahne is my heart favorite because I am a MOPAR fan. My head favorite is Kenseth because the Chase is about consistency and Kenseth is the most consistent driver in the sport for pulling out good finishes.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Bobby Labonte is the only driver to have won a Busch championship (1991) and a Cup championship (2000). That is, until Dale Jr wins a Cup championship. :smilewinkgrin:
On September 11th, Scott wrote:
On August 28th, ccrobinson wrote:
Need I say more?
ccrobinson
Active Member
Scott, are you just trolling now? I don't know what else to make of what you're saying. Were the statements that I made 2 weeks ago about the system being broken in 2005 not good enough for you? You can't seem to remember statements that were made 2 weeks ago, so you lack the credibility to say anything about statements that may or may not have been made in 2005.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
ccrobinson said:
Scott, yoo hoo...right up here ccr said it. I thought maybe you missed this the first time, so reposting it. :thumbsup:
Heaven knows I am NOT a Gordon fan, but I do think as a winner last year he deserved to be in the chase. I hope NASCAR changes things so that this will not happen again no matter if it is Gordon, Stewart, or Joe Blow.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Apology accepted.
It is poetic justice that Stewart isn't in the Chase this year. His own stubbornness, ego and stupidity at New Hampshire in July really cost him. In his TV interview on Saturday night, he mentioned that he got wrecked at New Hampshire while leading. I guess he hopes that we all forgot that Tony played a big part in getting himself wrecked at Loudon.
It is poetic justice that Stewart isn't in the Chase this year. His own stubbornness, ego and stupidity at New Hampshire in July really cost him. In his TV interview on Saturday night, he mentioned that he got wrecked at New Hampshire while leading. I guess he hopes that we all forgot that Tony played a big part in getting himself wrecked at Loudon.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I would love to see Dale Jr. win his first championship this year. I just don't see it happening this year. Here is my prediction for the chase...
1. Kevin Harvick
2. Matt Kennseth
3. Jimmie Johnson
4. Kasey Kahne
5. Dale Jr.
6. Mark Martin
7. Jeff Gordon
8. Denny Hamlin
9. Kyle Busch
10. Jeff Burton
1. Kevin Harvick
2. Matt Kennseth
3. Jimmie Johnson
4. Kasey Kahne
5. Dale Jr.
6. Mark Martin
7. Jeff Gordon
8. Denny Hamlin
9. Kyle Busch
10. Jeff Burton
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Nahh not brave. Just good at being wrong 
Here are my picks.
1. Kenseth He will probably win a race or two, but this team has a knack for taking a really bad day and turning it into a top 10 finish.
2. Johnson Also very consistent but has a tendency to fade late in the year.
3. Kahne With five of the ten races at 1.5 mile tracks he could very well win half the races. If he can survive Martinsville and Talledega he should be in good shape
4. Hamlin Since a Joe Gibbs team is last year's champion and since Hamlin made the Chase he should do well. He has been very consistent but will need to win to put him over the top
5. Burton Probably the most improved team this year and has run better than his finishes show. Needs to turn it up a notch to get to the top
6. Harvick This one could be flipped with Burton, but I think Burton's team will do slightly better over the course of 10 races. Harvick is a very aggressive driver and will be prone to a major mistake at some point
7. Gordon I cannot believe I'm picking Gordon this low and this driver is the most likely to do better than I am picking him. He'll do well at Talledega and Martinsville (he'll probably win both) but will be inconsistent and too-often non-competitive elsewhere
8. Busch The most likely driver to make two major mistakes, at least, over the course of the Chase. Just wait til he grows up...!
9. Jr. I know, he'll probably do better than this, but then again, he's unpredictable...or predictably inconsistent.
10. Martin It's too bad he never won a championship, but I doubt this is the year he starts. Nice guys don't always finish last but in this case we'll make an exception.
1. Kenseth He will probably win a race or two, but this team has a knack for taking a really bad day and turning it into a top 10 finish.
2. Johnson Also very consistent but has a tendency to fade late in the year.
3. Kahne With five of the ten races at 1.5 mile tracks he could very well win half the races. If he can survive Martinsville and Talledega he should be in good shape
4. Hamlin Since a Joe Gibbs team is last year's champion and since Hamlin made the Chase he should do well. He has been very consistent but will need to win to put him over the top
5. Burton Probably the most improved team this year and has run better than his finishes show. Needs to turn it up a notch to get to the top
6. Harvick This one could be flipped with Burton, but I think Burton's team will do slightly better over the course of 10 races. Harvick is a very aggressive driver and will be prone to a major mistake at some point
7. Gordon I cannot believe I'm picking Gordon this low and this driver is the most likely to do better than I am picking him. He'll do well at Talledega and Martinsville (he'll probably win both) but will be inconsistent and too-often non-competitive elsewhere
8. Busch The most likely driver to make two major mistakes, at least, over the course of the Chase. Just wait til he grows up...!
9. Jr. I know, he'll probably do better than this, but then again, he's unpredictable...or predictably inconsistent.
10. Martin It's too bad he never won a championship, but I doubt this is the year he starts. Nice guys don't always finish last but in this case we'll make an exception.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
swaimj said:
I bet we will be waiting awhile.