PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I agree with ccr, you cannot count out Jr. and Gordon until after Talladega. It is the wildcard track in this chase. Both of them could have great days.
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NASCAR is back, part II
- Thread starter Dan Todd
- Start date
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
What a terrible ending to today's race.
Did anyone else not really get Vickers explanation in the post race interview? He made it sound like Johnson moved to avoid Jr. and he couldn't help but clip him? I watched the replay several times and I did not see that at all.
Did anyone else not really get Vickers explanation in the post race interview? He made it sound like Johnson moved to avoid Jr. and he couldn't help but clip him? I watched the replay several times and I did not see that at all.
ccrobinson
Active Member
The first thing I don't understand is why he would help Jimmie in the first place. Jimmie didn't do anything to help Vickers win at Talladega in May, so why would Vickers feel obligated to help Jimmie today? Further, it sounds like he's been ostracized at Hendrick Motorsports merely because he's leaving the organization. In all the years I've followed Nascar, I've never seen a driver get shunned like he is and if it were me, I'd be angry about it.
To answer the question, no, I don't know what he's talking about. Vickers got a big run and got caught somewhat halfway between helping Jimmie and trying to win himself. Jimmie had it right when he said that somebody who has a run like Vickers had should be trying to win himself, not trying to help somebody else win. Maybe he didn't expect to get that kind of run on Jimmie and didn't know what to do.
The best alternative was to go high. When Johnson went down low and Earnhardt went with him, Vickers should have gone high and made it 3-wide with him on the top lane, a top lane that was the best lane all day. I think Cheater Knaus said it best.
“I honestly don't think Brian was trying to wreck us,” Knaus said. “I just don't think he has the talent to understand what he has underneath him.”
To answer the question, no, I don't know what he's talking about. Vickers got a big run and got caught somewhat halfway between helping Jimmie and trying to win himself. Jimmie had it right when he said that somebody who has a run like Vickers had should be trying to win himself, not trying to help somebody else win. Maybe he didn't expect to get that kind of run on Jimmie and didn't know what to do.
The best alternative was to go high. When Johnson went down low and Earnhardt went with him, Vickers should have gone high and made it 3-wide with him on the top lane, a top lane that was the best lane all day. I think Cheater Knaus said it best.
“I honestly don't think Brian was trying to wreck us,” Knaus said. “I just don't think he has the talent to understand what he has underneath him.”
Johnson was directly behind Jr. and got a big run. When he pulled out, the wind hit the front of his car and he slowed. This ALWAYS happens when a car pulls out to pass! Vickers should have anticipated this and should not have hit Johnson, but he made a mistake. Perhaps this is a lack of experience or a result of over-excitement, but he made a mistake. It turned out to be a very fortunate mistake for him.
Johnson, Gordon,and Jr. had the best cars at Talledega on Sunday, but they all got bad finishes and a first-time winner came through an beat them. This has happened so many times at Talledega that I can't count them all. Look at a list of Talledega winners over the years and it is full of people who had never won a race before and have never won another since. Vickers is simply the latest. It's what makes racing at Talledega so unique.
Johnson, Gordon,and Jr. had the best cars at Talledega on Sunday, but they all got bad finishes and a first-time winner came through an beat them. This has happened so many times at Talledega that I can't count them all. Look at a list of Talledega winners over the years and it is full of people who had never won a race before and have never won another since. Vickers is simply the latest. It's what makes racing at Talledega so unique.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Check out this article. Talk about looking through rose-colored glasses. I think it's interesting to note that nobody has said one single word about Nascar on this board this week. On another board I visit, I hear long-time fans complain week in and week out about Nascar and most of them have had enough and don't watch Nascar at all anymore.
I'd like to know who cares about the points race, a points race that Nascar.com calls "... the most intriguing..." since it was started. Intriguing? Really? Who thinks it's intriguing?
Wake me when the Chase is over. :sleeping_2:
Nascar's mantra: there's no such thing as bad publicity. The only other "institution", for lack of a better word, that I can think of that subscribes to this philosophy is Hollywood. We can see how phony Hollywood is and maybe this points out what Nascar is becoming/has become, phony. With the contrived Chase, and phantom debris cautions, and the looking the other way when certain drivers behave like fools on the track, re: Stewart for one, all in the name of the obvious chase for publicity, Nascar is becoming/has become a big phony.
The question gets asked on this board over and over about whether Nascar is a sport. I get annoyed by the question, because I always see the implied statement that it isn't a sport, but I'm starting to wonder if there's merit to the question. I've heard it for quite some time, that Nascar has more in common with the WWE than it does with a true sporting event, and maybe it's time to start putting Nascar on the same level as the WWE.
I'd like to know who cares about the points race, a points race that Nascar.com calls "... the most intriguing..." since it was started. Intriguing? Really? Who thinks it's intriguing?
Wake me when the Chase is over. :sleeping_2:
Nascar's mantra: there's no such thing as bad publicity. The only other "institution", for lack of a better word, that I can think of that subscribes to this philosophy is Hollywood. We can see how phony Hollywood is and maybe this points out what Nascar is becoming/has become, phony. With the contrived Chase, and phantom debris cautions, and the looking the other way when certain drivers behave like fools on the track, re: Stewart for one, all in the name of the obvious chase for publicity, Nascar is becoming/has become a big phony.
The question gets asked on this board over and over about whether Nascar is a sport. I get annoyed by the question, because I always see the implied statement that it isn't a sport, but I'm starting to wonder if there's merit to the question. I've heard it for quite some time, that Nascar has more in common with the WWE than it does with a true sporting event, and maybe it's time to start putting Nascar on the same level as the WWE.
Ironically, the Charlotte race is the first race since the Daytona 500 that I have sat and watched in it entirety. NASCAR has TOUGH competition on the TV right now. The NFL is in full swing and baseball is in its post-season. NASCAR's ratings are a little behind last year, but they are not being promoted by lame-duck NBC, so that may explain some of it.
As for the Chase, I think it is as intriguing as any points race I've ever seen. The Chase could be very dramatic because, right now, the leaders are guys who run very consistently, but win few races. Meanwhile the 7th & 8th place guys are guys who could win the rest of the races this year. So the tortoises are out front, but the hares are coming!
Also, the car of tomorrow has the potential to enable NASCAR to do away with the restrictor plates at Daytona and Talledega. That would greatly enhance those two events.
As for the Chase, I think it is as intriguing as any points race I've ever seen. The Chase could be very dramatic because, right now, the leaders are guys who run very consistently, but win few races. Meanwhile the 7th & 8th place guys are guys who could win the rest of the races this year. So the tortoises are out front, but the hares are coming!
Also, the car of tomorrow has the potential to enable NASCAR to do away with the restrictor plates at Daytona and Talledega. That would greatly enhance those two events.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
When is the so called car of tomorrow going to be the car of today?
ccrobinson
Active Member
I believe the COT will be run at selected events in 07 and will be fully implemented in 08. I think. There was some talk about running the COT at the Clash, aka the Shootout, at Daytona this February, but I don't know if enough owners are going to support this. While it would be cool to get rid of restrictor plates at Daytona/Talladega, my biggest hope is that aero push becomes a thing of the past.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Maybe I need to rant about Nascar more often, because that was a pretty good race yesterday. On 2nd thought, maybe I need to stop timing my rants to coincide with a race at Martinsville. Regardless, it was a good race and included a nice piece of driving by Jimmie Johnson to secure the win. Good work by Hamlin to do some good, hard racing and not spin the #48 to win.
Dale Jr. spins and loses 50 more points in the championship. :BangHead:
Now, this has become an intriguing championship with 6 drivers within 100 points and 4 races to go.
Dale Jr. spins and loses 50 more points in the championship. :BangHead:
Now, this has become an intriguing championship with 6 drivers within 100 points and 4 races to go.
ccrobinson
Active Member
I still think Gordon's out, not because he's so much closer to the leader, but because he has 8 drivers that he has to pass to win.
I think I'm one of the very few who follow F1 racing on this board, but it should be noted that a great champion retired yesterday from racing. Michael Schumacher won 7 F1 championships, 91 races and owns every important statistic in F1 racing. Obviously, Nascar fans don't have the monopoly on debating who the best racer ever was, as the inevitable debate about Schumacher has been ongoing for years. I don't believe Schumi is the best ever and think that particular title goes to the late, great Ayrton Senna.
I think this sportswriter from Down Under makes a good point about one reason why Schumi isn't the best ever. Bob Varsha made a great point on Windtunnel about Schumacher was very willing to grab the unfair advantage and contrasted him with Senna, who eschewed unfair advantages, preferring that his own talent win races. I'm not sure how true this is, as it tends to ignore Senna running over another driver, like Schumacher did, to suit his own purposes.
Regardless, Schumacher is a great champion, and the end of an era happened yesterday in Brazil. I sincerely hope F1 racing becomes more interesting as a result. Watching the same guy win 10+ races every year is more than a bit of a bore.
I think I'm one of the very few who follow F1 racing on this board, but it should be noted that a great champion retired yesterday from racing. Michael Schumacher won 7 F1 championships, 91 races and owns every important statistic in F1 racing. Obviously, Nascar fans don't have the monopoly on debating who the best racer ever was, as the inevitable debate about Schumacher has been ongoing for years. I don't believe Schumi is the best ever and think that particular title goes to the late, great Ayrton Senna.
I think this sportswriter from Down Under makes a good point about one reason why Schumi isn't the best ever. Bob Varsha made a great point on Windtunnel about Schumacher was very willing to grab the unfair advantage and contrasted him with Senna, who eschewed unfair advantages, preferring that his own talent win races. I'm not sure how true this is, as it tends to ignore Senna running over another driver, like Schumacher did, to suit his own purposes.
Regardless, Schumacher is a great champion, and the end of an era happened yesterday in Brazil. I sincerely hope F1 racing becomes more interesting as a result. Watching the same guy win 10+ races every year is more than a bit of a bore.
With four weeks to go in the Chase, here is my take on the driver's propects at this point:
1. Kenseth Out front is the place to be. He's been consistent to get there and has made the best of some bad days. Does he have the killer instinct to get it done? Since I predicted that he would win this thing, I say "yes". Look for him to win one of the 1.5 mile tracks
2. Harvick I am surprised that he is this high. I expect him to fade down the stretch.
3. Johnson The last guy you want to see in your rear-view mirror at this point. Conventional wisdom would say he will be the winner. I think he'll come up just short.
4. Hamlin Probably will finish about where he is now in the standings. For a rookie, that's quite a performance.
5. Burton He's had a habit of fading late in races this year. His fade in the standings has now set in. Sorry.
6. Jr He had very unfortunate finishes at his two best tracks, Martinsville and Talledega, on back-to-back weekends. I don't see how he recovers
7. Martin Poor guy. I predicted he'd finish tenth but its hard to see how he gets behind Busch at this point. So, he's on his way to a ninth place finish.
8. Kahne Arguably the favorite to win at 3 of the 4 last tracks, so you can't count him out. Still, Johnson, Kenseth, and Hamlin would all have to have one terrible week while he is perfect for him to win. Can't happen!
9. Gordon In his prime he was NASCAR's all-time best driver IMHO. I think he is past his prime.
10. Busch Whacked!
1. Kenseth Out front is the place to be. He's been consistent to get there and has made the best of some bad days. Does he have the killer instinct to get it done? Since I predicted that he would win this thing, I say "yes". Look for him to win one of the 1.5 mile tracks
2. Harvick I am surprised that he is this high. I expect him to fade down the stretch.
3. Johnson The last guy you want to see in your rear-view mirror at this point. Conventional wisdom would say he will be the winner. I think he'll come up just short.
4. Hamlin Probably will finish about where he is now in the standings. For a rookie, that's quite a performance.
5. Burton He's had a habit of fading late in races this year. His fade in the standings has now set in. Sorry.
6. Jr He had very unfortunate finishes at his two best tracks, Martinsville and Talledega, on back-to-back weekends. I don't see how he recovers
7. Martin Poor guy. I predicted he'd finish tenth but its hard to see how he gets behind Busch at this point. So, he's on his way to a ninth place finish.
8. Kahne Arguably the favorite to win at 3 of the 4 last tracks, so you can't count him out. Still, Johnson, Kenseth, and Hamlin would all have to have one terrible week while he is perfect for him to win. Can't happen!
9. Gordon In his prime he was NASCAR's all-time best driver IMHO. I think he is past his prime.
10. Busch Whacked!
ccrobinson
Active Member
I'm going to stick with my J Johnson prediction which I made after the Brickyard. I think he'll gain ground on Kenseth at Atlanta and Texas, lose a bit at Phoenix and gain juuust enough at Homestead to win. Predicted margin of victory: 10 points.
I wouldn't have thought so before the Chase started, or after New Hampshire, but, yeah, Harvick's a surprise at 2nd.
Jr. lost over 100 points at Talladega and Martinsville. He could be leading the points right now. :BangHead:
Please forgive the continued repeating of this, but Kahne's problem isn't that he's that many points behind, but that he's got so many drivers to pass in such a short time. But, I said the same thing about Jimmie Johnson a couple of races ago.
I disagree about the all-time best driver sentiment, but there's no need to rehash that discussion.
swaim, I think you're first I've seen write this, but I think you're exactly right. I think he is no longer the hungry driver he was in the 90s. I think the fatalistic approach at Martinsville, "It's just not meant to be", (Mark Martin tm) shows this.
I wouldn't have thought so before the Chase started, or after New Hampshire, but, yeah, Harvick's a surprise at 2nd.
Jr. lost over 100 points at Talladega and Martinsville. He could be leading the points right now. :BangHead:
Please forgive the continued repeating of this, but Kahne's problem isn't that he's that many points behind, but that he's got so many drivers to pass in such a short time. But, I said the same thing about Jimmie Johnson a couple of races ago.
9. Gordon In his prime he was NASCAR's all-time best driver IMHO.
I disagree about the all-time best driver sentiment, but there's no need to rehash that discussion.
I think he is past his prime.
swaim, I think you're first I've seen write this, but I think you're exactly right. I think he is no longer the hungry driver he was in the 90s. I think the fatalistic approach at Martinsville, "It's just not meant to be", (Mark Martin tm) shows this.
I was glad that NASCAR fined Robby Gordon and docked him points for throwing an object on the track and intentionally causing a caution.
Gordon is very disrepectful of the sport to do such a thing. And then to have the incident shown to him on replay and still deny it! He got off easy!
Gordon is very disrepectful of the sport to do such a thing. And then to have the incident shown to him on replay and still deny it! He got off easy!
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
So who in your mind still has a shot at the cup?
ccrobinson
Active Member
Well, Earnhardt still has a chance because NASCAR will help him out if he's close.
Not all that long ago, I would have disputed this, but it's become all too obvious that Nascar does help him. I wonder if Nascar will be making "The Call" to the #8 team at Phoenix, which has been a good track for him.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Maybe I am just naive, but how is NASCAR helping Jr?
ccrobinson
Active Member
Easy. Debris cautions that are thrown before Jr. goes a lap down. The most blatant was the debris caution thrown at Atlanta for a hot dog wrapper.
I think Nascar is using debris cautions to try and generate drama rather than letting the sporting event generate it all by itself. I think ratings are higher when Dale Jr. does well, so Nascar has taken it upon themselves to try and help him do well because it means more money for them.
Nascar has gotten themselves out of the business of running a sport and into the business of running entertainment disguised as a sport. More and more I think that Nascar is becoming/has become something very similar to the WWE and has just as much credibility.
I think Nascar is using debris cautions to try and generate drama rather than letting the sporting event generate it all by itself. I think ratings are higher when Dale Jr. does well, so Nascar has taken it upon themselves to try and help him do well because it means more money for them.
Nascar has gotten themselves out of the business of running a sport and into the business of running entertainment disguised as a sport. More and more I think that Nascar is becoming/has become something very similar to the WWE and has just as much credibility.