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I know from scripture and from my own experience that there is a greater witness within me that confirms my salvation over and above even my own flesh (which always is in attack mode), much less any man outside of me. It is from that inner witness I can say I "KNOW" as it is the abiding Spirit that provides that kind of assurance (1 Thes. 1:4) in spite of myself, men or Satan.

You may "know" your brother and nephew, but you cannot possibly know their heart as only God is privy to that. You can only surmise. It is possible to have your faith overthrown so that you doubt your own salvation. However, doubting your own salvation is one thing, denying there is a God is quite another thing and proclaiming to be an atheist. If such is the product of having their faith overthrown, Paul tells Timothy that God still knows His own even if His own have lost faith in knowing God. Hence, that must be possible.

On the other hand, there are those who were "of us" but who went from us that it might be manifest they were really not of us at all (1 Jn. 2:19). Significantly, the apostle informs us that their departure is the ONLY THING that makes this manifest, not their former profession, not their former life, not their former attitude but only their departure.

 

Of course the Spirit can produce emotions in a christian, but the flesh can produce emotions too. For example, on mothers day gospel radios will play songs about mothers and i can set and listen to these songs and get pretty emotional because i had a dear christian mother. But i also recognize i am getting worked up by the flesh and not of the Spirit. The only songs that produce spiritual emotions are songs that praise and glorify the Lord.

 

No one comes to Christ kicking and screaming. Sure!

No one is brought to Christ without kicking and screaming either!

When it is OSAS it is Passive, always, Passive and grateful.

 

I agree with you, that Imperishable seed thing taught in the Bible, but some like Charles Stanley do hold that even IF a Christian lost his faith, God still saves them, that would be taking grace too far!

 

The problem is that we cannot examine the heart. There are false professions and there are children of God who may be living outside of God's will.

 

So, you are claiming that every child raised in a Christian family under Christian teaching God is obligated to save??

The problem is that small children will believe in Santa Clause as much as Christ and seek to please their parents. Salvation includes more than acceptance but a new creature. If there is no new creature there was no true saving faith.

 

MUST factor into this discussion the truth that God has chosen to save His own people in Christ, and that Children to me would be "protected" unto age of God personally holding them accountible /responsible for their sins...

KNOW that salvation is of the lord, and that He has reserved and chosen out a people for His name sake, I just would see children/infents/challenged sinners having God provoding for them an Ark by the Cross!

Once an adult, IF one of the saved, would exhibit fruit of some type reflecting that!!

 

The Arminian can know for certain he is saved today - but does not now for certain that he will choose to persevere 20 years from today.

The 5 point Calvinist cannot even know that much.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I think your question is about "Train up a child in the way he should go".

Adam and Eve trained up - Seth, Cain and Abel. (and of course others). We can see that two of them did not depart from the teaching of their parents.

In the case of your nephew part of that "Training" may have been the "Training" that he got at Liberty. If that included the news that God did not create the world or that the Bible is not really true, or that you should not believe the OT etc - or if it included a relationship with another person that was not morally correct, that would have been a powerful element of "training" that might send him out the wrong way.

Still in all fairness - he is not yet "old". According to Romans 11 "God is able to renew them again if they do not continue in unbelief". If in his later years he does return to God you will be back at this board saying "it is true! When he was old he did not depart from the training in his early childhood".

The same Arminian principle that assures one that they are indeed saved today but does not predict that they will choose to persevere 10 years from today - also tells the lost they are lost today - but does not assure them that they will choose to remain lost 10 years from today.

It is the same Arminian principle that tells us to seek out the lost - to encourage them at every turn to choose to repent to choose life. As Paul says "we beg you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God". Whereas the primitive Baptist might not be interested in that approach to the lost at all - because they think they should wait until God turns the lost into the SAVED saint -- and THEN they should witness to them.

in Christ,

Bob

 

ANY who call upon the name of the Lord is saved, but the Lord has to enable them that wanting to call upon the Lord!

Children to me would be under the provision of the Cross, as God would work into His Purpose and plans rmission of their sins by not holding them against them!
My opinion, others may differ...

 

This is a mystery, as the bible does not directly address issue, so based upon nature of God and the provisions of the Cross..

Those whom God lnows shall fall into that category have their sins atoned for in Cross...