Negativism at Home Could Produce Defeat Of U.S. Policy in Iraq

Ann Coulter's comments - good or bad or whether accurately reported or not as the case may be - have nothing to do with anything I've written in this discussion.

Patrick

 

You're writing about yourself again ASLANSPAL. You've really need to keep that straight!

By the way, my "handle" is Dragoon68 - not Dragon or Dragoon.

Patrick

 

</font>[/QUOTE]You know, I just find that rude.

If you think I am mistaken, then you should tell me so. I find your less than good sense of humor insulting. Who would Jesus laugh at? </font>[/QUOTE]What? You're kidding aren't you?

Patrick

 

That's a very serious charge there, ASLANSPAL. I think you must back up that charge and tell us whom Ann Coulter has murdered or else repent and retract your statement. </font>[/QUOTE]ASLANSPAL can't back up the charge and he won't retract it either. It's part of the blame game the liberals play. The thought process is that an accusation repeated enough times becomes accepted as fact.

Patrick

 

No, the Viet Nam war was very real. It wasn't a joke at all especially to the 9 million Americans who fought it in, the millions more of our allies and South Vietnamese, and the Vietnamese nation in which it was fought.

The inflated body count issue has been acknowledged as a short coming of our "accounting" in the war. That doesn't mean the body counts were always incorrect, the war was wrong, nor that the military leadership was "no good".

Fonda and Kerry, for their antiwar efforts, deserve no kudos. They failed our nation in what they did. Kerry deserves respect for his contribution as a warrior but also deserves condemnation for his exaggerations and lies - not truth - through his participation with the VVAW and other antiwar activities.

Propaganda does abound from the left about the war. The Communists love it and use it at all the time.

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps I am missing something... when someone lies do you still pick and choose what may be the truth? What did that war accomplish? </font>[/QUOTE]It exposed the failed and flawed policies of LBJ for one thing.

It also opened the eyes of Military Strategists who were stuck in the 1940's.

It also proved to the Communist World at that time that we would not rollover for each and every Communistic advance into a unaligned country.

It also proved that unless the people are willing to fight for their own liberty no other country can do it for them.

It also proved that you cannot win a war unless you commit all your assets to that war - Men, material and Resolve until it's finished. The idea that a soldier would stay only a year in the combat zone and then be done was the craziest idea the military ever came up with. It decimated morale and downgraded the American Fighting Capacity.

It also proved that Richard Nixon was not the Savior many thought he would be.

Vietnam taught us a lot and changed a lot of people and a lot of mindsets. Most of it for the good even though at the time it was painful.

 

It exposed the failed and flawed policies of LBJ for one thing.

It also opened the eyes of Military Strategists who were stuck in the 1940's.

It also proved to the Communist World at that time that we would not rollover for each and every Communistic advance into a unaligned country.

It also proved that unless the people are willing to fight for their own liberty no other country can do it for them.

It also proved that you cannot win a war unless you commit all your assets to that war - Men, material and Resolve until it's finished. The idea that a soldier would stay only a year in the combat zone and then be done was the craziest idea the military ever came up with. It decimated morale and downgraded the American Fighting Capacity.

It also proved that Richard Nixon was not the Savior many thought he would be.

Vietnam taught us a lot and changed a lot of people and a lot of mindsets. Most of it for the good even though at the time it was painful. [/QUOTE]
Very good analysis Hardsheller , it is what I always believed, our soldiers who fought in Nam could have done better under better leadership.

[ July 05, 2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Rocko9 ]

 

Excellent point and completely relevant to the on going war in Iraq. Hopefully, we won't need to learn this lesson yet another time.

Patrick

 

Yep. The Nazis did that in Germany. </font>[/QUOTE]And yet you don't see how Bush and his minions use that very tactic? Keep saying it until it becomes true? Like 'mission accomplished'. Right. 'We're turning the corner".

 

Excellent point and completely relevant to the on going war in Iraq. Hopefully, we won't need to learn this lesson yet another time.

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]The fact that there is a war at all is proof we have learned nothing. We are still savages. It's pathetic, really.

 

That's not at all the case! The fact that there is, and will always be, war until Christ comes again merely proves that there is evil in the world. We are a nation - one of only a few - that stands against that evil and who are willing to scarifice of ourselves to defend against it. We do not make wars - We end wars!

Patrick

 

I beg to differ! Who started this little war we are in right now? BUSH! Based on lies, no less. Based on hatred, no doubt. WE made this war for no good reason. Had someone else started it, then yes, we should have finished it. But I fail to see how starting a war is or can ever be deemed a good thing~! That is simply rediculous!

 

No, our enemy "started" the war, by their aggression, their constant threats and sabre rattling, and their failure to comply with years of pleadings and economic pressure from other nations desiring a peaceful solution. We took the action needed to defend ourselves and others even though it involves great cost to us. God bless America for her courage to take on the evil of our enemies even when many would not. God bless our leaders for having the courage and wisdom to take the diffcult but just paths.

Patrick

 

I didn't personally listen to the original MSNBC debate between Ann Coulter and Robert Muller back in 1996 so I can not attest, with certainty, to the comments made or not made. I don't normally listen to those kinds of things because people rarely get to truly explain their views. The debates become very argumentative and things can get out of hand.

However, always amazed at the extent to which the liberal smoke blowers will distort the truth, I decided to do a bit of research on the allegations and, as I suspected, found the reports to be less than the full truth.

Some sources claim that she said "People like you caused us to lose that war." which is apparently a carefully designed paraphrase of the actual quotation. ASLANSPAL's gross stretch of the meaning to an outright condemnation is even worse than the parphrasing done by the news media!

Coulter says she didn't say it the way it's being quoted and has the tape to prove it. She says the point at issue was Muller's particular argument against the US military protecting itself with land mines and that he was portraying our troops in Viet Nam as a bunch of incompetent stooges and claimed that a leading cause of casualties was stepping on our own land mines. Such an allegation by Muller was completely untrue! She says she made the obvious response "No wonder you guys lost.", in a sarcastic manner, but that in no way implied the meaning now attributed to her comments by the misquotations and out of context interpretations. Knowing Muller's confrontational style and strong antiwar sentiment it seems very likely she's telling the truth about the context in which the words were spoken.

I'm neither a strong advocate or critic of Coulter because I don't normally read her commentaries. However, from what I've learned, I seriously doubt she meant anything even close to what's been repeated by the liberals and I don't believe she blames the troops for the war in Viet Nam. I suspect this is more of the liberal antiwar movement's efforts to find - even fabricate - faults in their opponents. For certain, I don't care for Muller's views despite respecting his personal sacrifice. At worse case, I believe Coulter made a poor choice of words in the heat of the debate. When dealing with someone like Muller I can understand how that might come about.

Regardless, Coulter's comments have no effect whatsoever on my own observations and opinions about Viet Nam war veterans.

Patrick

Show resolve - Support the cause!

 

Excellent point and completely relevant to the on going war in Iraq. Hopefully, we won't need to learn this lesson yet another time.

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]The fact that there is a war at all is proof we have learned nothing. We are still savages. It's pathetic, really. </font>[/QUOTE]But you still sleep with your doors unlocked at night right?

And you feel perfectly safe in Compton late at night right?

The Savages are all around us and will be until the End. Remember it's called Sin.

 

I take it our friends here from the hard radical left have first hand experience in Vietnam and are not just talking about something they heard or read about from somebody else.

 

Oh, I guess I shouldn't listen to my own father or his brothers or my mother's brother or their uncle. Yes, I wasn't there so therefore, I can't read a history book or six and make any sense of it at all.

 

Excellent point and completely relevant to the on going war in Iraq. Hopefully, we won't need to learn this lesson yet another time.

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]The fact that there is a war at all is proof we have learned nothing. We are still savages. It's pathetic, really. </font>[/QUOTE]But you still sleep with your doors unlocked at night right?

And you feel perfectly safe in Compton late at night right?

The Savages are all around us and will be until the End. Remember it's called Sin. </font>[/QUOTE]Your comeback makes no sense. I do lock my doors and I don't go through Compton at all if I can avoid it. That is not to say all sinners live in Compton or that all people who live in Compton are sinners. Do I detect a bit of bigotry?

Right. The savages are all around us. Just because they are savage is no cause for the rest of us to follow lock step with their ways. Thank you for your support in my thoughts about savagery being sinful! You should write a letter to the president and tell him of your epiphany!

 

Oh and by the way it was two liberals(by thier days standards) Jack Kennedy and LBJ who got us in that war. It was also LBJ who went from 1/2 million dollars net worth to over $40millin net worth who escalated that war. It was a conservative who got us out and ended the draft and opened up relations with China.Tricky Dick was no angel to be sure but when compared to his contemporary politicians he was just another politician.