1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

NHS: Starving Alfie to death was just 'redirecting care'

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by carpro, Apr 28, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    No-one's killed anyone.

    Tell me, when you watch an episode of 'ER' and they're in the recovery room and someone says "I think we should stop now", do you jump up and point your finger at the screen shouting "Murderers!"?
     
  2. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The parents had the same expert medical guidance. But, according to you, they weren't medically qualified enough to decide what was best for Alfie. But it didn't matter that the judge was no more qualified than they were.

    Got it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    The difference is that the judge was willing to be guided by the evidence. The parents weren't and neither it seems are you.

    Yes, I've got that. When will you?
     
  4. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :Rolleyes
    Yeah. Right. Withholding nourishment for 5 days from a sick child is normal in the UK?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    ER question to you again then. Answer that first and then we'll talk about Alfie
     
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :Laugh
     
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Dumb question. No one starves to death in the ER.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    No, but they stop artificially keeping them alive at that point.

    Same with Alfie. So, bad luck but quite a sensible question in fact, which you I note you have still failed to answer.
     
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So in the UK, providing nourishment to a sick child is "artificially" keeping them alive.

    Got it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    Nope, wrong again: providing nourishment and ventilation to a person who is basically all but brain dead and cannot breathe unaided for any length of time is artificially keeping them alive.

    Got it yet?
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, of course it should. I'm hoping that the publicity of the case will bring about change in the law over this.
    But to say that Alfie was starved is not true; to say that the parents could not have a second (and third) opinion is not true, and to say that there was any other diagnosis given which opposed that of the doctors at Alder Hey is not true.

    Personally, I am not utterly wedded to the NHS and would consider an insurance-based service as is the case in many other countries. But the fact is that most people in the UK will not consider any alternative to the NHS and any party promoting an alternative would be committing political suicide.

    Also, I have to say that the NHS saved my wife's life three years ago, when she was suddenly taken ill, and it has just safely delivered my first grandchild :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep. Got it.

    You're OK with depriving an already weakened Alfie of nourishment for 5 days.

    Since taking him off the ventilator for
    5 days didn't do the job, starvation had to help it along.

    If he doesn't die one way , kill him some other way.

    Got it.
     
  13. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    I'm OK with letting a dying child for whom nothing further can be done die a natural death with dignity rather than try to resist God's will
     
  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 3:30 PM Pacific\10:30 PM GMT.
     
  15. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    According to your previous post, you are also ok with withholding nourishment from a sick child.

    aka starvation. that's hardly a "natural death".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    If the artificial feeding through a tube in the stomach is part and parcel of prolonging his life artificially when his brain has ceased to function, yes. We can hook someone up to a machine who's brain dead and keep their body going theoretically indefinitely by such methods. Doesn't mean we should. "Everything is possible, but not everything is beneficial or desirable."
     
  17. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You should be bureaucrat working for the NHS. You'd fit right in.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    193
    I will accept that as a compliment as I know many very good people including good Christians who work for the NHS and have to deal with a great deal of strife from chronic underfunding by the Tories to fund tax cuts for their rich cronies to the sort of ignorance very difficult cases such as this bring to the fore
     
  19. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you do, make a video and post it here.
     
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep. Denying care to people who need it. Especially if it's too expensive.

    No 75 year old will ever get a knee replacement.

    Deciding when to "let" people die, regardless of what the family wants.

    Denying life saving care to a 90 year old because it won't extend their life long enough to make it worth the expense, all the while whining about a lack of funds because your welfare eutopia is unsustainable.

    But most of all telling parents they are not capable of caring for their sick child, that they must be killed in the hospital. And taking them to court to be sure the child is killed right. By starvation.

    We call 'em death panels. And you'd like to serve on one. Hmmmm.............
     
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...