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No due process

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Sep 30, 2011.

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  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), Sep 30, 2011
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  2. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    I argued when the Bush administration passed the Patriot Act that is was a most dangerous act and with passage took many civil rights away from the American people. I condemned by many on this BB for that stance. We now see, IMHO, that I was correct and that this act has been taken to an even higher level, the denial of life to American citizens without due process.

    While I do not defend Anwar al-Awlaki and believe he was a most horrible person, he was an American citizens as he was born in the US. I do not see how anyone can defend the killing of an American citizen, no matter how terrible that person is, without due process. This is a very slippery slope for all American citizens.

    Yes, it is a huge loss to the terrorist organization, but is that worth the slippery slope this has put the US on concerning its own citizens?
     
    #2 Crabtownboy, Sep 30, 2011
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  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member

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    I have mixed feelings on this. The man the U.S. killed is certainly a link in the chain of terrorism. However, his crime seems to be speech:

    He was involved in several terror plots in the United States in recent years, using his fluent English and Internet savvy to draw recruits to carry out attacks.


    and

    Known as an eloquent preacher who spread English-language sermons on the Internet calling for "holy war" against the United States, al-Awlaki's role was to inspire and -- it is believed -- even directly recruit militants to carry out attacks. He was not believed to be a key operational leader, but as a spokesman.


    This is going to be interesting to watch. While we as Christians decry Islamic states that persecute Christian preachers and missionaries, we find it expedient to kill one of their preachers.

    I trust the U.S. has ironclad evidence indicting this person for more than simply preaching on the Internet, otherwise, this is a sad day for civil liberties.
     
  4. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Wow! Neither did Hitler get due process.
     
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member

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    ...and by invoking the "H" name, this thread is officially declared derailed and dead.
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    And it's cross party, Bush policy carried out by Obama.
     
  7. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    So we shouldn't bring up the fact that in war it has been long appropriate to take out the leader in this way? Or have we just mindlessly learned to respond to the name Hitler in this way? Not sure but it seems to be one or both.

    Either way the op ignores some facts to make an incorrect point.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Big difference. This was an American, not a foreign enemy. No matter how heinous the crime once we have thrown due process out the window we are in serious trouble.
     
  9. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Not a big difference. He left the country and and worked to kill and Americans and American interests. He was not just a terrorist he led them. His citizenship does not place him in any status higher than Hitler when he does this stuff. No laws have been broken and this was more than needful.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    So who gets to decide when due process can be denied now? Any president?

    Do you support President Obama's decision to kill an American without a trial?
     
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    It's not like he was someone they killed on the streets in NY...he was an Al Qaeda leader living in another country committing treason. Why should he be granted his US "rights" in such a situation?
     
  12. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Active Member

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    He should have been indicted. Some court should have seen the evidence against a male who was giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Then this should have been carried out.

    This was not against some upstanding American who has a different political view. This now even more useless piece of trash should have gotten some form of due process, no matter what kind of vermin he was.

    How's that for walking both sides of the arguement? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Again when you go overseas, create videos admitting you are the leaders of terrorists attacks against American citizens and interests and become an international terrorist you have committed acts of war against the US. He was given sanctuary in a foreign country.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    Both articles are contradictory. They admit such decisions to kill al-Awlaki were "state secrets", yet they also state the President ordered his killing. Which is it, a secret or known?

    Also, the predator's targeted the entire convoy of AQ. They are our enemies during a time of war. Should they have surrounded the convoy and arrested everyone and sorted out who was American at the station?

    This is a complete non-issue. What was needed was done, and one instance Obama should not catch grief, IMO.
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    So, can the president kill any American he wants to kill?

    Americans deserve due process of law, now matter how bad the crime. Once we discard that right we are all in serious danger.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Because he was a citizen - full stop. His death is a good thing in the war on terror, but a hugely dangerous precedent has been set. So if the Constitution we all say we love isn't getting the job done we can ignore it?

    One question - can a US president now ignore the courts and order the execution of US citizens?
     
    #16 NaasPreacher (C4K), Sep 30, 2011
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  17. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    It is not reasonable to go there.

    When you become an international terrorist and are given sanctuary in a foreign land and continue your activities you are not in the same situation as a murderer in the states. You are trying to make the two equal when they are not. The other option is to bust into the sanctuary country and capture him and bring him back.
     
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    Red Herring.
    So what should the military have done? Arrest hostile enemies? You wold have been OK with innocent US soldiers being killed to ensure the due process of this alleged "citizen" committing treason and leading the enemy?
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Please explain how this is a red herring. The president ordered the execution of a US citizen. Is that acceptable?

    If due process is no longer a constitutional right, no matter what the cost, we are in trouble folks.
     
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    I don't think it has. This is a situation unlike others.
    When they are an enemy leader of the States? Absolutely. Civil liberties are suspended during Martial Law, so our "rights" are not ironclad.
     
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