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None are Clean

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Reformed, Oct 12, 2019 at 11:10 AM.

  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    One of the things that have been reinforced during the Trump-Biden Ukrainian affair is that there is no president in my lifetime who is clean. By clean I mean devoid of things like scandals, terrible legislation, and foreign entanglements. I was born during the Kennedy presidency, so I have been alive for Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, George H. Bush, Clinton, George W. Bush, Obama, and now Trump. Arguably, the president who was the cleanest of all was Gerald Ford, but that is because Ford served a truncated term due to the resignation of Richard Nixon. Here are some of the scandals and foreign interference entanglements for each President since Kennedy.

    John F. Kennedy

    The Bay of Pigs incident. Lead by the CIA, this was Kennedy's attempt to destabilize Castro and dislodge the Soviet presence in the Caribbean. If failed miserably.

    The Vietnam War. Kennedy began United States involvement in Vietnam to prop up the democratic government in Saigon and stop communist expansionism.

    Lyndon B. Johnson

    The Great Society. While not a scandal per se, LBJ's Great Society was the largest welfare program in United States history. It eclipsed Franklin Roosevelt's actions during the Great Depression. The Great Society ushered in the welfare state and generation poverty.

    Escalation of the Vietnam War. Johnson grew United States troop strength in Vietnam to over 500,000 by the end of his second term.

    Richard Nixon

    Nixon is known for the Watergate scandal, but he also continued to keep large numbers of United States troops in Vietnam until it became obvious the war was losing proposition.

    Gerald Ford

    Pardon of former President Richard Nixon. Ford received heavy criticism for pardoning Nixon.

    Jimmy Carter

    Iran Hostage Crisis. Carter bungled the Iran hostage crisis by allowing it to continue without resolution for 444 days.

    Failed Iran Hostage Rescue. Improperly fitted helicopters and poor execution lead to a disaster in trying to rescue the American hostages in Tehran.

    Ronald Reagan

    Iran-Contra. The United States government secretly sold weapons to Iran and diverted the proceeds from those sales to fund the Contras (rebels) in Nicaragua.

    George H. Bush

    The Gulf War. After Iraq invaded Kuwait, Bush assembled a coalition of nations to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait and defend Saudi Arabia. The main criticism Bush faced was that the Gulf War was really about money and oil.

    Bill Clinton

    Monica Lewinsky and Impeachment. Clinton had sex with a White House aid and then lied about it. As a result, he was impeached, although he was acquited by the Senate.

    The Balkans. Clinton involved the United States militarily in the conflicts in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, Serbia, and Montenegro.

    George W. Bush

    The War of Terror. Critics say that taking out Saddam Hussein created a void in Iraq and helped make it a hotbed for terrorists. Incomplete intelligence about Weapons of Mass Destruction created a condition that did not exist and lead to the escalation of the war in Iraq.

    Scooter Libby scandal. The former Chief of Staff of Vice President Dick Cheney leaked classified information about CIA agent Valerie Plame.

    Wall St. Bailout. As was the case with LBJ, Bush blew up the federal deficit by signing a $700 billion bailout of the credit markets. Barack Obama would go further than Bush but it was Bush who started it.

    Barack Obama

    Benghazi. The terrorist attacks on the United States embassy in Benghazi and the failure to deploy readiness teams to protect the life of the ambassador was a major failure of the Obama presidency. Secretary of State, and future presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton was also culpable.

    IRS Targeting of Conservatives. This occurred under Obama's watch.

    ObamaCare. This was a policy initiative that placed the Federal government in charge of healthcare by mandating that individuals either have approved healthcare or pay a fine.

    Donald Trump

    Russian election interference. Although no proof has been found to link Trump to Russian election interference, that matter still dogs his presidency.

    Declaring an emergency in order to divert funds for building the Wall. This "scandal" is flying under the radar but opponents of Trump consider this unconstitutional and grounds for impeachment.

    Ukranian Controversy. This latest controversy has galvanized House democrats to hold impeachment hearings on Trump. Trump is accused of strongarming the Ukranian government to launch an investigation into former Vice President, Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden. This controversy is ongoing.

    Please understand that I am not making a judgment call on all of these scandals, controversies, or foreign interventions. I do have definite opinions but they are irrelevant. My point is that there has not been one president in my lifetime that is not without controversy. Some of controversies are due to poor legislation. Others are genuine scandals. The things I listed about each president were not meant to be exhaustive. There are many more things I could have posted but I cherry-picked the most well-known incidents.

    So, what is my point? If we are waiting for a president who is as morally pure as the wind-driven snow, we will have a long wait ahead of us. If we are waiting for a president who will be without scandal or controversy during his term(s), well, get used to disappointment. Human government, unfortunately, is made up of human beings. Flawed and sinful human beings. We, as voters, are just as flawed and sinful. We should keep that in mind when we consider future candidates and how we will cast our vote. This is a change for me because I have always voted for the ideal. I failed to realize that the ideal candidate does not exist and never will.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Actually Ike sent (non-combat) advisors to Vietnam Nam in 1955


    as far as " judgment call on all of these scandals,"
    Some of those are strictly politically motivated.
     
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  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    You are correct. I was commenting on Presidents who served from my birth year until now.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I didnt realize you were that young -

    Myself, I am only 23 years old ---- Jack Benny as my witness
     
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  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I heard you charged up San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders.
     
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  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Didn’t God ask Israel why they even needed a king when they had him?
     
  8. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am not sure what you mean. Israel was a covenant nation. The other nations of the earth are not.
     
  9. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    By clean I mean devoid of things like scandals and legislation and foreign policy I don't agree with.

    (Fixed your post for you)

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #9 InTheLight, Oct 13, 2019 at 12:33 PM
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 12:57 PM
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You are confusing TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program, which ultimately showed a profit) passed by Democrats and signed by Bush with Obama's $780 billion stimulus program, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, (which no Republican house member vote for.)

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  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Scooter Libby was falsely accused and eventually cleared. He had nothing to do with anything.

    The Bay of Pigs was caused by JFK's backing out at the last moment of his operation because he was having sex or raping a young girl. It may have been Ike's plan to let communist dissidents fight and they would have won if they had been re-suppled as promised because they did fine until they ran out of ammo. At any rate, JFK called Ike to Camp David for advice and Ike told him that when you start something like that you have to finish it. Cubans still hate JFK to this day. JFK was no good.

    Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin in Viet Nam. The government has admitted that it never happened. At any rate, it did not amount to a hill of beans.

    You are veering left all the time. Nixon wanted to win the war but Congress wouldn't let him. That was what I hated about that war--our troops were not allowed to win by LBJ and other Dems.

    Everyone agrees now that Ford did the right thing in pardoning Nixon and Ford was one of the most beloved of all former Presidents during the last years of his life. Nixon's error was in trying to hide what his people had done behind his back and without his knowledge. He should have hung them out to dry and gone on. He was a moderate but was good at foreign policy. HIs trip to China brought prosperity to some but it impoverished Americans because of Chinese theft and shoddy merchandise. We now know that money does not change dictatorships but only makes them more viscous. The Chinese even have the NBA kowtowing to them.

    The main criticism of George H.W. Bush is that he did not march on Bagdad while he had the troops in place.

    Trump never had anything to do with the Russians. He got lots of free publicity from the lamestream media and attracted huge crowds and that his how he won. We now know that Obama started all this stuff and Clinton chimed in because she was allies with the Russians. The GOP never liked Russia and even Willard Mitt Romney warned that Russia was dangerous to which Obama laughed. I heard recently that Russia had a military exercise in Siberia involving 300,000 men so Russia still is very dangerous.

    The Dems know that it is not illegal to move funds around to start the wall because it involves national defense. They are counting on the press to keep the public in the dark about the truth.

    Trump had a legal right to talk to Ukraine and ask them to investigate crimes. Biden violated the Hobbs Act and should go to prison along with his son. Also, Gen. Flynn had a legal right to talk to the Russian ambassador before assuming office. Every President-elect and his team routinely talk with foreign leaders to introduce themselves and establish general meeting times and problems to be worked on after the inauguration. The American public is too ignorant to know that this is normal and good and the Dem-controlled media is trying to twist it into a crime when someone other than Obama does it.
     
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  12. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The purpose of the thread was not to state whether the the things listed were right or wrong. These things dogged their respective administrations, which proves that each of these administrations had scandals and controversies. If we think whatever candidate we vote for will be free of these things we delude ourselves. That is the point.

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  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Who thinks a president will not have controversies?

    Anybody?



    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  14. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I spoke to such people during the last General Election. They actually thought their candidate was beyond reproach and controversy/scandal-proof.

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  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    So we need a political cabal to rule us?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The main thing to me is did the President try to steer us closer to the ways of God as outlined in the Bible, or further away?
     
  18. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I actively campaigned for Ted Cruz. I heard such nonsense from fellow Cruz supporters. I heard it from Trump supporters. I even heard it from Clinton supporters.
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    yes, they all suck
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Do you feel any closer now?
     
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