Number Of His Name

GE:
Let's get one thing straight: That is not what Paul said!
1) "We shall meet"
2) "The Lord in the air"

That means not:
1) We shall rise up / be raised up into the air.
"We", are the Subject of the Verb, "to meet"; not, of some verb that does not exist in the Text, but is dreamt up, 'Be (in the air)'.
2) "The Lord" is the One who 'is', "in the air" -- in which "air" (not, 'heaven') He is "descend(ing)" to the earth - which was His idea to do from the first -- not not to come to the earth only to leave it straight away!

Literally, there stands written, "We who are living and remaining" -- not, 'raptured away', but 'remaining'! That is, on this earth, dear friend!,

"We, shall be grabbed / thronged / brought together": By the power of His Coming: "in clouds" -- of dust one must assume of all the saints being gathered together on this earth and from all the graves in the earth that are opened and the dead are raised from. It shall be a work God shall do towards us; not us towards Him: We- those who are 'sleeping' then - shall be mightely "seized" as by the Almighty Right Hand of God from the dead; EVEN SO those who are 'quick' then - "shall be changed" upon the face of this earth of soil and clouds of dust! And so shall also this same earth be made new by the same Coming of the Lord and by the same Right Hand of God, even by His very Presence : Immanuel, God with us.

 

Compare how Adam (and Eve) were formed from the dust of the earth and lived not until God breathed life into his nostrils. Why would the redeemed need fresh air for if they need not even the sun on the New Earth and have received a glorified body? The resurrection just like that of Jesus shall be an earthly event, because it is God's eternal purpose with this earth: "God so loved the WORLD"!

 

I'm with you.

 

I'll believe what the Lord said, "We who are alive and remain in Him shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

 

Amen, Brother StandingfirminChrist -- Preach it! :thumbs:

I already wrote my own comments on the 'no rapture' claim.

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1Th 4:16-18 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
For the Lord himselfe shall descende from heauen with a shoute, and with the voyce of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then shall we which liue and remaine, be caught vp with them also in the clouds, to meete the Lord in the ayre: and so shall we euer be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore, comfort your selues one another with these wordes.

Where is my comfort that you are
supposed to get me which is COMMANDed
to you in 1 Thess 4:18?

What then is the Bible talking about
when it says these things (items of
interest bolded & in all caps)?

1 Thess 4:17 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Then shall we which liue and remaine,
be CAUGHT VP with them also in the clouds,
to meete the Lord in the ayre:
and so shall we euer be with the Lord.

2 Thess 2:1-3 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the comming
of our Lord Iesus Christ, and
by OUR ASSEMBLING VNTO HIM,
2 That ye be not suddenly mooued from
your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit,
nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs,
as though the day of Christ were at hand.
3 Let no man deceiue you by any meanes:
for that day shall not come, except there
come a DEPARTING FIRST, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne
of perdition,

Titus 2:13 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Looking for that BLESSED HOPE,
and appearing of that glorie of that mightie God,
and of our Sauiour Iesus Christ,

Mat 24:31 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
And he shall send his Angels with
a great sound of a trumpet, and
they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT
from the foure windes, and from the one ende of the heauens vnto the other.

1Co 16:22 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
If any man loue not the Lord Iesus Christ,
let him be had in execration MARAN-ATHA.

1 Corinthians 16:22 (TNIV = Today's New
International Version):
If anyone does not love the Lord,
let that person be cursed! COME LORD!

Joh 14:1-3 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Let not your heart be troubled: ye beleeue in God,
beleeue also in me.
2 In my Fathers house are many dwelling places:
if it were not so, I would haue tolde you:
I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go to prepare a place
for you, I wil come againe,
and RECEIVE YOU VNTO MY SELFE,
that where I am, there may ye be also.

Ed redefines 'rapture2' with some Scripture
terms:

rapture2 n. -
1. the pretribulation event where Jesus
performs a resurrection1 followed
closely by a rapture1
2a CAUGHT VP;
2b OUR ASSEMBLING VNTO HIM,
-- and DEPARTING;
2c BLESSED HOPE;
2d GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT;
2e MARAN-ATHA;
2f COME LORD!;
2g RECEIVE YOU VNTO MY SELFE;
2h and HOPE THAT IS WITHIN YOU

Caveat: I reserve the right to add to this definition
as I find other supporting scriptures. These
were just the ones on the top of my mind
tonight.

Sorry, my HOPE is NOT even closely threatened
by sombody grabbing my word 'rapture'.

And I have fulfilled the COMMAND OF JESUS:

1 Peter 3:15-16 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
But sanctifie the Lord God in your hearts:
and be ready alwayes to giue an answere
to euery man that asketh you a reason of the
HOPE THAT IS WITHIN YOU,
with meekenesse and reuerence,

--------------------------------

 

EE:
"be CAUGHT VP with them also in the clouds,"

GE
Its winter and dusty; me and me doggie go for a walk. She likes to storm past me from behind that her ears make a slapping sound. The small dachsie runs up a cloud of dust, literally. She 'CATCHES UP' with me from behind. According to you, she shouldn't kick up a grain of dust, but get airborn! Silly!

Accross the face of the earth the dead of all time come up in clouds even of PEOPLE, in the day of the Lord's Return. John portrays it grandiosely as he sees the redeemed enter the Holy City, and the City is being encompassed by the devil and his armies. Everything the events of the Day of Judgment on and of this world. But you live in your dreams on another 'plane-t' far removed from reality!

 

standingfirminchrist:
"I'll believe what the Lord said, "We who are alive and remain in Him shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.""

GE
I'll believe what the Lord said, "We who are alive and remain in Him shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." It is the "LORD, in the air; not US in the air. We shall meet Him - go to meet Him, like I or you go meet a visitor at the gate to bring him in into your home. The Lord COMES TO BE with us - He "descends"; He does not 'ascend with us' or us with Him. We "remain";we do not 'leave'. And we "catch up together with them", the dead who had been raised from their graves; we do not like Arabs on wonder-mats float up like helium balloons. Your ideas are not even funny; they are mocking. No redeemed will have both feet above this earth in the air for longer than a running-leap to meet the Lord when He comes.

 

No one shall meet the Lord motorised! It will be us his creatures and redeemed and Him our Maker and Redeemer, Paradise Lost, regained!

 

Well GE, we agree on this issue if not on the nature of the atonement. Jesus is not coming to rescue us away from the world - He is coming to resurrect us in the world.

I understand how people can read the 1 Thess text and conclude that we will be "raptured". I will not make the case in this post but I am convinced of arguments that Paul is constructing a rather elaborate metaphor here - drawing on the Moses / Mount Sinai story and Daniel as well as other stuff.

I do not think that the scriptures teach that there will be a "rapture". Such an event would go against the sweeping picture of God rescuing his creation - including us, not "taking us out" of creation and leaving it behind.

 

All true. 1Thess 4 states it clearly.

But where many err is they miss the key Bible teaching that the Rapture is post trib and pre-mill as we SEE it in Matt 24 "AFTER the Tribulation of those days ... He will gather his elect" the same as we SEE it in 2Thess2 speaking to us about "His appearing" and "our being gathered" to him.



Bob

 

good post!

The "extermination" decree issued in Lateran IV is still considered infallible RC canon law.

Bob

 

What great references -- thanks!

Bob

 

SFIC - hits the ball out of the park! good one.

Bob

 

1. "Number of his name" is a phrase found only in Rev 13.
2. The term "antichrist" is not found in that chapter. But the application that people like Cotton Matther seems to be reasonable.

Finally -- let's start LOOKING at the "number of his name" as described by the GREEK text of the book of Revelation written during the time of the ROMAN Empire where the national langage of Rome is Latin.

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = no value
R = no value
I = 1
U = 5
S = no value
---------------
112​

F = no value
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
--------------
53​

D = 500
E = no value
I = 1
-------------
501 ​

112 + 53+ 501 = 666​

​

Bob​

 

But God doesn't rescue creation during the Tribulation - he lets the people that are there suffer it.

A parallel for the rapture could be the Flood -- God took Noah and his family out and rescued them as the Flood destroyed the rest of the earth.

 

True - at the flood Noah and crew were still on earth.

The rapture happens "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... THEN shall he gather his elect" Matt 24.

Bob

 

The Apocalypse of John was writen in Greek. Not Latin. If you want to put numeric value to letters then you should use Greek not Latin. BTW I'm not in support of most of the posts here. I believe the book of Daniel came to completion in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the end of Judea. That the last week of the weeks spoken of in Daniel happened up to 70 AD. I veiw each day in the week as a period of a decade. I'm probably the only one here with that view. Jesus is the fulfillment. Christianity is his kindom on earth. Jesus will return again in judgement and there will be a resurection of the dead. Keep in mind there was also a resurection when Jesus died on the cross as well.

 

Ellen = L+L=100,
Gould=U+L+D=555,
White=a double 'U' = 2 'V's +1 =11.
Total these three numbers, and we have, 100 + 555 + 11 = 666.

Ellen Gould White = 666

 

To bad Mrs. E.G.White didn't do all the deeds of the Antichrist - she just wrote a few books.