Obesity

Purely on obesity here:

In Discover of September of this year (2002), there is an article about eating that is very interesting. It starts by describing a mutation which results in something called "Prader-Willi syndrome" which results in ravenous eating without ever feeling satiated. "Untreated, most people with the syndrome become obese by their teenage years and are dead by adulthood, killed by heart disease, diabetes, or other conditions. Some have died from gorging until their stomachs actually burst."

Later the article continues,
"Eating may seem basic, but the whole process, from feeling hungry to finally pushing away from the table, is controlled by elaborate and largely mysterious circuitry between brain and gut. Scientists have identified more than 250 genes and at least 40 neuro-chemicals that regulate metabolism and appetite, but it's clear than in humans, social cues are at least as powerful as biological signals. The study of metabolism and appetite, one appetite researcher wrote, is like "a few small islands of scientific understanding surrounded by a vast sea of uncertain phenomena."

Tests show that eating the foods one likes releases dopamine in the same regions of the brain that heroin does.

So how does one start to prefer foods? In infancy and childhood! Personally, I have added 'favorite foods' to those my mother used to cook, but I still make her tuna casserole, meatloaf, fruit jello, and a number of other dishes. I still look for at least two vegetables and meat with dinner. Unlike her I make soups out of leftovers, love curried foods and sweet meats, and prefer tea over coffee. But what happened is what was added to her meals, not subtracted.

Well, I always hated her 'ham on rice...'

But what I am trying to say is when we see a fat adult, maybe we are looking at a person who has been fighting an uphill battle -- for a variety of reasons -- for so long they are exhausted with the time and attention the fight takes and are simply desiring to turn their attention to other matters.

In this kind of a case, encouraging an overweight person to have an active role in church activities might be part of a process that helps them lose some of that weight!

Folks, our biggest problem -- all of us -- is the attention we pay to ourselves. Anything we can do to encourage others to help with something outside themselves, and anything we can do to look beyond our own selves to something we can do, is EXACTLY what Jesus meant by loving your neighbor as you love yourself.

When 'the role is called up yonder', the question won't be "how many calories did you consume each day?" but "did you do what I asked you to do with your life?"

If someone who is overweight wants to serve in church and we deny that person the opportunity to do so because we find the weight offensive and bad for some kind of public image, then we have sinned against the Lord by not loving and caring for that person and we have sinned doubly because we have thereby stood in between that person and the Lord in terms of what that person may have been called to do.

It's funny how dependent we are on sight, isn't it? A person who stutters but looks nice is quite acceptable. A person who is fat but a marvelous communicator is shunned. Fat is ugly. Don't offend the eyes and all is well.

This is the same foundation as abortion, folks. If you don't see it, it's OK to kill it. When it's born and you can see it you fight like anything to save its life.

We are a strange bunch.

[ August 07, 2002, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

Helen,

You make an excellent point that fighting weight is often an uphill battle. That is quite evident since the weight loss industry makes billions every year.

In trying to keep in line with the Mr Curtis' line of questioning, I do not believe that anybody should be limited in their service by their weight. Weight shouldn't be a requirement for service, and those who struggle with it should not be discouraged from serving.

However, a lot weight problems are preventable and the church should have programs to encourage healthy living because excess weight causes health problems including early death. I'm sure everyone knows of some ministry that was cut short because of weight related health problems.

Paul

 

The biggest (oy, such a pun) problem is see is that size is the factor used in determining gluttony here. Someone else has already said that they can eat and eat and not gain a pound. In discriminating against obese people, we are looking only to the physical signs of sin. Only those whose sin is physically obvious are excluded. That seems wrong. I agree that size can be used as a tool to determine gluttony, but gluttony is not the only way a person becomes obese. I'm not talking about disabilities that can cause obesity either. I know that I can stand to lose significant weight, but also know that I eat very healthfully, and am certainly not a glutton. But, on the basis of nothing other than how I look, it would be assumed that I am a habitual sinner (gluttony, in this case), and I would be dismissed from service. On the other hand, a thin person who IS a glutton would be assumed not to be by basis of their thinness.

All I'm saying, whether or not it can be agreed that gluttony is cause from exluding a person from service, is that it must be determined that a person is actually a glutton. To that end, mustn't we watch the eating habits of everyone, to ensure that we don't miss a thin glutton by accident? Or is that different, since they're obviously not physically affected by their gluttony, and that's what we're really after? Are we only going to look at what fat people eat, or everyone?

Actually, since the question was rephrased to ask if those engaged in habitual sin should be exluded, I agree with Helen that most eveyone would be exluded from service, no matter what they looked like.

[ August 08, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: stubbornkelly ]

 

*snipped hammerhead post*

[ August 09, 2002, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

I am new to the board, but this topic hits home with me. I have had a major weight problem since I was a young child (about 5yrs old) I am type 2 diabetic, slightly underactive thyroid (both treated with meds) I know the other side of this issue. I know what it's like to never feel "good enough" to be doing whatever I do for the Lord. I know what it's like to always put off doing anything, until "this problem is under control"
I know what it is like to feel like I bring dishonor to the name of my Lord. I know the shame, the feeling "beneath" "normal" folks.
I have sorrow, I have repentance, but still I struggle, and most of the time, I fail. I'm not upset that people are addressing this issue, it needs addressing. I do know from personal experience that obese people struggle constantly with feeling that they are even worth the effort it takes. If you don't know this constant struggle, thank the Lord for it. You can be an alcoholic, and not drink for a few hours and you can hide the fact. The evidence of my sin, yes I will call it that, is there for all the world to see. I live in constant shame and humiliation. This is the cycle. Being aware of my appearance, knowing people are judging me because of it, and feeling worthless because of it. I do not enjoy being sick. I hate being tired all the time. But the truth is, most of the time I overeat, I am not even aware of it until it is done. Then the shame, disgust and unworthiness...you get the picture. What is ironic, is that others tell me that I am such an encourager. Funny huh? Physician heal thyself?
I want to see my kids grow up, to know my grandkids. I don't understand it myself. I know I am saved, I have repented over and over, and I honestly want to be pleasing to my Lord. I try to depend on the Lord's strength and grace to overcome this! Please just realize, there is nothing anyone could do to make an obese person any more ashamed than they already are. I don't know of ANYONE who WANTS to be in this position-with the weight or the problem of overeating. And how much is too much?
Should we allow someone who is 20 lbs. to hold a position, but cut them off at 30? Who decides? I don't hold a "position" as far as teaching ss (I use to in our former church for many years) I do sing in the choir, have taught VBS, am involved in our nursing home ministry-should I stop it all?By the way, I have never, ever tried to defend or excuse my problem to anyone.
The only righteousness I can claim is the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. Mine are as filthy rags. I will always fall short. If I conquer my weight problem, will I have a pride problem? Will I be thanking the Lord -like the pharisee, that I'm not like those sinners? Should I just stop everything? Would that be more glorifying to the Lord? Should I wait until I "arrive"? And how will I know when that will be? Please don't think I'm being sarcastic, really I'm not. I appreciate this being brought up. I pray that you will not think of my response as a defense, I am guilty as charged. I'm just trying to give a little more personal insight from one who knows the battle. I praise the Lord for this opportunity to meet all of you here. Please pray that the Lord will help me to overcome this. That is my desire! To please my Lord. God bless you all.

 

I see, it's cool to be over weight a little, but not too much? Tell me this, who is the expert that is to decide what is too much? Will it be you, or perhaps another well exercised brother or sister?

This really is a silly post, and I'm surprised that I even opened it up, let alone posting in it... Jesus fought against this sort of hypocrisy his whole ministry.... He was even called a glutton himself.... This is Jerry Springer mentality, that's prevalent in this present world....

Modern day pharisees and hypocrites are alive and well in the second millennium AD.... I'm glad that God is my judge, on this, as well as every other matter... I would hate to lose heaven because of some extra pounds.... I bet Jesus would be surprised to find out that his blood didn't cover this unforgivable sin....

Some of you over exercised (in the body) Christians should exercise yourselves in the scriptures.... Bodily exercise profits little, but Godly exercise profits much...

BTW, those of you who are at ease with your conscience (about your outward appearence) before men... Are you the same way before God in the spirit? Do you perhaps have a secrete sin that you would like to share with us? Obese people have no choice but to show their (secrete sin) weakness.... It's real easy to pick on (judge) someone of that nature... Oh well, I suppose God will bring all secrete sins to light....

Charity suffers long......

[ August 11, 2002, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Graceforever ]

 

Five of my children are special case adoptions. Of these four have disabilities: brain damage, hard of hearing, amnionic band syndrome, and retardation.

Something I told my children long ago and I have told many others since is that we are ALL born with disabilities, it's just that some show more than others. And I told them I preferred the ones that show, because the ones that didn't show were the worst: temper, pride, lying, etc. It's much easier to deal with the 'outside' disabilities.

In addition, would all those who think fat people WANT to be fat please stand up? I notice no one did.

Are you aware that with some people the feeling of fullness simply is not there? In the same way, with some skinny people, the feeling of fullness is almost always there -- or maybe half an orange will do it.

I'll tell you something, I would sure rather have an obese person representing my church or working in it than a liar or a homosexual or a closet drug addict or an arrogant person! Every fat person I know is humble. That's a wonderful start. I can live with fat when humble rides in with it!

The bodies we are in are going to ROT, folks. Some of us have a head start on that now! The Holy Spirit shining out of the eyes of a fat person makes that body as holy as any model's body ever could be. Maybe more so, for the Lord chooses the weak and foolish things of the world...

Kick the liar out. Kick the arrogant person out.

There are far worse things than being fat!

 

Amen!

HankD (who tips the scales at... nevermind!)

 

Hi,
I am a short, fat person. Oh, ow I said the "f" word! No one wants to say it. I have an underactive thyroid, and PCOS. Other than that I am perfectly healthy. Perfect blood pressure, blood sugar, and cholesteral. My great grandmother had the same figure through the depression. In fact she lived into her nineties. God made us all different short, tall, fat, thin, black, and white. While I agree obesity is becoming an epidemic, let us remember that there are worse things. Some people are gluttons, I agree. But I think we have also been brainwashed by the media as to what is attractive. Oh well I am rattling on. Again I see all points. no offense to any of the skinnies out there.

 

Helen, you can't justify 98% of obesity with the 2% who have honest physical problems, and before you fly off the handle at me, you need to know that I also struggle with my weight. My wife is nearly diabetic, and if she doesn't eat she gets terribly ill. Yet we both have come to grips with the fact that the real reason we are overweight is because we have an inordinate desire for food.

Lust is a strong desire of any kind. Israel in the wilderness fell into lust and craved flesh to eat, Numbers 11:4; A characteristic of Sodom was that whe was overfed, Ezekiel 16:49; and isn't it interesting (to postmodern, 21st century American thought) that when Christ was tempted with the lusts of the flesh he was tempted to turn stones into bread and not a voluptuous babe?

We all have our weaknesses, but trying to justify a form of idolatry (Phil. 3:19) because in our fleshly minds this form is less repulsive than those forms will not bring real healing.

Every fat person I know is humble.

Hogwash. I know a lot of fat people, and we all have attitude. I have not seen that pride and arrogance are less prevalent in fat people as they are anywhere else.

Self-denial is a cardinal Christian discipline, and that's one discipline that needs to be developed in fat people with regard to food.

No one can gain more mass than what is taken in. It doesn't happen. Physically impossible no matter what condition one is in. One gram in the mouth equals one gram stored in the body (minus that amount burned as fuel and passed into the draught).

No one is perfect, yet overeating is a moral issue, not a medical one. Instead of justifying obesity, we need to be helping one another overcome obesity. It's not by counting calories or abstaining from certain foods. It's by learning to crucify the lusts of the flesh and dethroning our bellies.

Darn straight talk, but you didn't pull any punches either.

 

I've been giving this topic some more thought and what concerns me is how "good" we have to be before being allowed to serve God through the church. If only Christians who were without sin were allowed to be leaders, the church would be in real trouble.
I also think we need to be careful to not assume that others are not addressing areas of sin in their life just because we don't see the results of it. A compulsive over-eater may not have lost enough weight to have been noticed by his neighbor but he might have made great strides in developing a more healthy relationship with food. In addition, it is important to realize that God convicts us of areas of sin in our lives on His schedule. Let's say that I struggle with both sin A and sin B in my life -- God may be working with me to overcome sin A right now while not pursuing me in the area of sin B as strongly.
In terms of the church ministering to those who struggle in terms of addiction to food, it helps to remember that it is easier to beat the addiction when it is not just "given up" but replaced with a more healthy thing. Getting a person who struggle with food issues involved in the church's music ministry can help them direct their energy away from self-destructive behavior towards more God-honoring behavior -- they can continue to develop a deeper understanding of God's love and acceptance of them, as they are NOW (a sinner or overweight or whatever).
We also should be cognizant as Christians of the prevalence of eating disorders in our society. It is not just the obese who need our compassion in this area but those who suffer from anorexia, bulimia, or other patterns of disordered eating.

 

The worst sins are the ones we ourselves don't commit.

HankD