Offical Lanuage for the US

Well, I'm about as far from liberal as one can be, I think, but see it as an issue of federalism.
Twenty-nine states and five US territories have 'language provisions' in their constitutions or statutes, and it seems to work pretty good, for their purposes. I am not in favor of intruding any more into the states provisions. Every state and territory publishes its documents in English, to my knowledge, and "American English" is a de-facto language of most, if not all states, although three states are officially bi-lingual (being LA, NM, and HI) and is definitely the language of the Federal government, as all official documents relating thereto are in English.

Where would we be without other languages? Would the Allies even have won WWII without many more casualties if not for the Navajo Language, as the Navajo "code-talkers" were never close to being broken, by the Axis? Sign Language arose in the USA, enabling those that are deaf to communicate when they otherwise might be extremely limited by not being able to hear. What about the 'colonial' languages of, say, Dutch, Gaelic, French, Welsh, German, etc., etc.? Would one have barred Martin van Buren from the Presidency because his 'home language' was Dutch, and English was a 'second language'? How about Andrew Johnson, who was basically illiterate until his wife taught him to read and write, well, as an adult? Why is there any need for any of this 'officialness' to extend beyond the federal government?

Ed

 

I am just not even going to dignify that hateful diatribe (post #60) with a direct response. Plus those articles are probably not even taking illegal immigration into account.

Those 'illegals' have minor children who are citizens. It is really too late to do anything about that past. But I agree the border needs to be closed now. The question is how to do that without resorting to genocide. There was a recent amnesty as you probably know.

http://www.asbj.com/evs/07/americans.html

 

amity, I hope you are not referring to me with "that hateful diatribe". Every 'American', whatever that means, has an heritage from some other country or countries, land, or background, that is not the United States, proper. I consider myself "American-born", but recognize that may ancestors had some history, even if I'm not able to discern all of it.

Last time I checked, a verse from Emma Lazarus' poem, "The New Collosus" was still inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.

It's amazing that some want to see this lamp extinguished, at any price, in one way or another.

Ed

 

We have been dealing with this question in Nashville. One of our councilmen proposed a bill called "English First" that declared that all "government business" would be conducted in English. It was subsequently deferred indefinitely after the implication of its implementation were debated on the council floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Some of the problem areas that were identified were 911 calls, schools, tourism, Chamber of Commerce opposition, and the public image of the city in other parts of the world. Someone also mentioned the possibility of the city exposing itself to legal action if someone's death could be related to the city's refusal to respond to a call for assistance in a language other than English.

The whole idea strikes me as simplistic, arrogant, mean-spirited, and isolationist. It might even be non-Chrstian, but that is not for me to judge. I am a volunteer supervisor for our local Habitat for Humanity affiliate. Over the last ten years, I have worked on houses for homeowners from a wide variety of nationalities. Recently, my church helped sponsor (along with an Episcopal church and a synagogue) a house for a family of Kurdish Muslims. Yesterday, I worked on a house for a man from Ethiopia. Since November 2003, we have built a community of over 100 houses that has become an international neighborhood of people bound together by the Habitat mission and their love of their new home country. Dedication of 14 houses is in two weeks after we finish eight more houses. By the end of the year, the whole neighborhood will be fiished. Over 140 houses and families!! This represents America at its best.

On another note, my church started a Vietnamese congregation about twenty years ago. The congregation still meets in our chapel. Normally, their services are conducted in Vietnamese. But, recently, I found out that their pastor has had to start conducting a bi-lingual service (in English) because the children and grandchildren do not understand Vietnamese well enough. That says to me that this problem is temporary. Just as occurred in the 19th and early 20th centuries, the generations of original immigrants did not understand or learn English very well, but the following generations picked it up quickly. That will be the case here.

Tim Reynolds

 

Yes. I am one of those who would remove that poetry from the Statue of Liberty. But NOT 'at all costs.'

But NO, I was not referring to you, Ed. I am sympathetic to what you are saying. And Tim. Wow, good posts.

 

Timsings, TN is one of the twenty-nine states that has English as the 'official' language, FTR.
Ed

 

As a Florida resident I find it hard for you to believe this. Florida is the number one tourist destination for Spanish speaking people. Do you believe people who come to this country for vacation should be fluent in English? If, yes, do you also believe the same for those from other foreign countries should be fluent in English? Because they AREN'T.

 

:thumbs: Great post!

 

No one says they MUST be fluent in English.

 

My post was just meant to clarify PS's. He stated that the only time it is adventageous to know Spanish as an employee is when you are police officer working within the Latino community, etc....

As a fellow Floridian I find this hard to believe. Having Spanish speaking employees is beneficial to the business in this state.

 

Are people just too stupid to learn English or what? What is the problem here? Are we, as Americans, asking too much of immigrants to learn the language of this country? Are they lazy? If I moved to Japan, how long would I last if I refused, or was just too lazy, ot too stupid to learn the language of the country that I chose to live in? What the heck is the problem here? I am going to take a leave of absense because you are getting me frustrated. I need a rest.:wavey:

 

As I said, Anglo-Americans do NOT characteristically learn any other languages if they live in other countries, no matter how long they may live there. So we can hardly point fingers. The U.S. is the most monolingual place on earth.

Also, obviously there need to be more programs to teach English and Spanish both. There are few currently. And in spite of this, most people do learn English surprisingly well, but not often written English. English is one of the tougher written languages to learn. I am sure I don't need to explain why, do I?

 

Waita minute. I have the solution to the whole problem. It just dawned on me like a bolt of lightning from the sky.

What language is the original copy of the Declaration of Independence written in? What language is the original copy of the Constitution written in? The Bill of Rights? There is your answer.

 

:laugh: Sorry PS your post just struck me as funny because there are myriads of English only speaking Americans who do not even understand these documents when reading them.

Anyway, I don't believe people should not learn to speak basic English when living in this country. They should. I do, however, realize that when English is your second language you may have trouble reading and/or understanding written English. I cannot fault someone for not being able to pick up the language easily, especially when many english only people have trouble as well.

 

Well whose fault is that? Mine? Yours? George Bush's? The opportunity is there for everyone to get an education and learn to read and understand these documents. What do you want the government to do, have them translated into ebonics? Do you want to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator because people are either too stupid or lazy to learn something besides the latest video game or the lyrics to 50 cent's latest hit? Your arguement is about the most ridiculous one yet.

 

Have any of you (either personally or in a "church capacity") ever considered the possibilities and/or the potential of a Gospel outreach to offer any classes in English as a Second Language (ESL) for those in your community who do not speak/understand English?

Do any of you actually have an active role in an ESL program in your community?

If you have, have you found it useful as a means of reaching these people for the Lord?

 

This post does not even deserve an answer. What exactly is my argument, do you even know?

You're so blinded by your hatred and disdain for what I don't know, but it's very sad. I could hazard a guess based on your comment, but I'll refrain. It's not worth it. Ridiculous does come to mind, as well as a few other things.

I see absolutely no problem with having government documents and/or forms in common languages other than English to aid those who use English as a second language. For one thing it is not dumbing down anything. Do you think they take an English document and then dumb it down and put it in Spanish or Creole? :laugh: For some people it is easier to understand written documents in their native language.

Oh, I see now, the people who need these documents are usually 1st generation immigrants, which probably also means they are poor. That must make them stupid, right? Sheesh! :BangHead:

 

And another thing, do you really think it is only poor, inner city, urban, (read black), citizens who do not fully understand documents like the Constitution and Bill of Rights? There is an immense difference between being able to read something and being able to fully understand it. I daresay the majority of all Americans can read the thing, but they certainly don't all understand it, nor are they able to apply it correctly.

 

So, how many languages do we translate every single document into? All of them? Select ones? Farsi? Swahili? Klingon?

When I have visited other countries, I had to find someone who spoke English. (Which isn't usually too hard, since it's the most widely spoken language in the world, when you count it as a second language.) But, I would never expect to move to a country and expect them to bow down and translate everything for me. I would expect, if I wanted to move to their fine country, I would have to learn to speak Japanes, Tagalog, or whatever.

My wife is from Puerto Rico. Her aunt teaches ESL in New England, as well as Spanish. But, having a common language is necessary for a civilization to survive.

BTW, to get my wife's birth certificate for her passport, we had to get her abuela to go across town and get it because there was no one in the government office who spoke English. They're part of the US, and they didn't even bow down to providing an English translator.

 

First of all I am NOT suggesting that people should not learn English if they choose to live in this country. Those states where there are higher populations of ESL citizens should determine whether or not it is necessary to have alternate documents. Florida, for instance, has high populations of Spanish and Creole, (Hatian refugee), residents. If you have ever worked in a government office in Florida you would see the neccessity of these documents. Many of these people are able to speak English very well, but they do not understand the different documents, forms, etc. written in English. It sure saves the gov. employees a heck of a lot of hassle being able to use the alternate forms. It's funny give them the English form and there is a lot of blank confused expressions. Give them the same thing in their native language and it is as if a light has gone off. You'll notice that it is the 1st generation refugees and/or immigrants who need these. They have made an effort to learn the language well enough to speak and interact with pretty much anybody, but many of them have not learned written English well enough to understand lengthy documents and forms, etc. I don't see the problem, and I don't consider it an erosion of the American identity in any way.