1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Old earth or young earth?

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by evangelist6589, Jun 24, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 7 of 8
  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you're saying that the earth doesn't really look old. It's just that the processes observed today at present rates are assumed to have been the processes and rates always in operation, so old age is assumed, not observed.

    So apparent age is a fallacy.
     
    #121 Aaron, Jun 30, 2017
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    #122 HankD, Jun 30, 2017
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Well it works in the short term but over long periods of time you have to "assume" nothing changed as far as rates go AND you have to "assume" the starting conditions. Lot of "assuming" gets stuck in place of the actual Word of God "as if" the assumptions of man (that any atheist might make) are every bit as valid as the Word of God when it comes to re-inventing God's Word to fit what man "imagines and then assumes".
     
    #123 BobRyan, Jun 30, 2017
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So the question would be, can one assume the Grand Canyon was formed almost instantly by a catastrophic event and would the evidence fit?
     
    #124 Aaron, Jun 30, 2017
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    True. If you are not looking for a divine act of creation (just as we could ask - were humans formed instantly by a catastrophic event or did monkeys make them, or did God make them). And in the case of the Grand Canyon a single catastrophic event could do this when the ice dam broke after the flood and ice-age. Or it could have formed when the land was raised up and the waters receded) - several catastrophic events to choose from.
     
    #125 BobRyan, Jun 30, 2017
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What about ice core samples from the polar ice caps?
     
    #126 InTheLight, Jun 30, 2017
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yes, was created by the Great Fllod!
     
    #127 Yeshua1, Jun 30, 2017
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, what is the evidence? That is a rhetorical question. I've heard lectures and read literature pro and con. One's presuppositions determines his interpretation of the data, and frankly, the YEC geologists have better explanations. In the debates, the Naturalists almost always retreat the "purpose of science," which, they say, is to find Naturalistic explanations for observable phenomena. But that is a philosophical argument, not a scientific one.
     
    #128 Aaron, Jun 30, 2017
  9. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What about ice core samples from the polar ice caps?
     
    #129 InTheLight, Jun 30, 2017
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Polar Shaved Ice!

    HankD
     
    #130 HankD, Jun 30, 2017
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Both sides use the same evidence, its just the creationist side actually supports the facts!
     
    #131 Yeshua1, Jun 30, 2017
  12. banana

    banana Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2014
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    5
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As far as I am aware just Adam and a flood
     
    #132 banana, Jul 1, 2017
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus saw Adam and eve as real historical beings!
     
    #133 Yeshua1, Jul 1, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How about the FACT that light from parts of our very own galaxy takes some 30K years to reach us? (Not to mention the light from other galaxies!)

    I believe God allowed us to discover the speeda light for the purpose of clarifying some creation questions.

    Now, lemme ask those proficient in ancient hebrew here - Do the first verses of genesis not show that God re-formed the surface of al already-existing earth in "the beginning"?

    And God caused Noah to take at least one pair of EVERY animal, bird, insect, etc.on board the ark. thus, if dinosaurs had then existed, they woulda been released with the other animals when the flood receded, and woulda been known to man.
     
    #134 robycop3, Jul 5, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. The so-called "Gap Theory" is utter nonsense. It is not only unbiblical, it is anti-biblical.

    The first three verses of Genesis 1 are little understood by most Christians.

    Verse 1 is the title of the book of Genesis. It basically tells us what the story following is all about.

    1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.

    - Here is what we are going to talk about.

    2. The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.

    - This verse is what is known as a circumstantial clause. It relates the circumstances at the beginning of the story.

    It is similar to "A man was walking down the street and turned into a pharmacy." The circumstantial clause is that "a man was walking down the street." That tells us what was going on (the circumstances) when our story starts.

    The circumstances outlined in verse 2 is that the Earth was unformed (tohu) and unfilled (bohu). Darkness reigned and God's Spirit was present.

    Verse 2 begins with what is called a waw disjunctive. The waw disjunctive can be identified by the attaching of a waw to a noun. In this case waw·ha·’a·res (And the Earth). When a waw is used with a noun the waw disjunctive results.

    The disjunctive disconnects verse 1 from verse 2. There is no logical or chronological connection between verse 1 and verse 2.

    So, the bible does not tell us when verse 1 occurred. Only that it already existed when the story starts in verse 3. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

    Now note that the waw that begins verse 3 is attached to the verb. "Said God" (waw·yo·mer e·lo·him). When the waw is attached to a verb it means verse 3 follows both logically and chronologically immediately after verse 2. This is called a waw consecutive.

    So, is there room for a gap? Such a gap is meaningless as far as the narrative is concerned. Nothing other than the unformed and unfilled ball of dirt in perpetual darkness existed until God, in verse 3, began to form the unformed and fill the unfilled.

    No life of any sort was possible as the penalty for sin, death, had not yet been passed on creation.

    So, the bible does not tell us how long ago verse 1 happened. In fact, verse 1 is not temporal. It is divorced from the time line and is included only as a synoptic title for the Creation narrative.

    But the idea of the gap theory is idiotic. It ignores both the grammar of the Hebrew and the theology of the narrative itself.

    From verse 3 until the end of chapter 1 every verse save one starts with a waw attached to a verb making each verse follow, logically and chronologically, the verse before it.

    So,

    Verse 1: Here is what we are going to talk about.

    Verse 2: Here are the circumstances when our story starts.

    Verses 3 and following: Here is how God formed the unformed and filled the unfilled.
     
    #135 TCassidy, Jul 5, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And to open a host of others.

    Saying "the speed of light is such and such, so the universe is old" isn't telling the whole story.

    Adam's Telescope
     
    #136 Aaron, Jul 5, 2017
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We can prove that speed of light can slow down/speed up, so how sure are we that the speed has always been same in all Universe?
     
    #137 Yeshua1, Jul 5, 2017
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Scientists have been able to slow light down to some 38 MPH in certain transparent gels, but not able to speed it up past its "standard" velocity.
     
    #138 robycop3, Jul 6, 2017
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But now, doesn't the Hebrew say the Spirit of God moved over the face of the waters? Therefore, SOMETHING must've been there.
     
    #139 robycop3, Jul 6, 2017
  20. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,143
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    #140 Gold Dragon, Jul 6, 2017
Page 7 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...