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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by fatbacker, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. natters

    natters New Member

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    I agree.

    Can you respond to my other comments about reconciliation with a fellow servant vs. paying back the debt owed to the King?
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I already did, please go back and read my response which you have encapsulated in your request "fellow servant" The offending servant remains a servant.
    Yes, he must pay the last "farthing" - It's a parable, the "farthing" is symbolic of reconciliation.

    It is a parable brother natters. It teaches a lesson. If you want to believe that it teaches that one losses ones salvation then go ahead, that is your right.

    I gave you what I know it is teaching, forgive one another or suffer the chastisement of our heavenly father until we reconcile with our brother/sister.

    The little word "til" proves that it is a temporary thing not "hell" which is never ending.

    God could have made it very clear by using terminology concerning this "prison" such as "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" but he did not.

    natters do you now, presently as we speak, that you have eternal life?

    Is there any possibility that you can "lose" it?

    If so, then whatever it is you think you have is not eternal life but "possibly eternal life" or "a good chance of eternal life" since it would cease on the day you "lost" it and are back in hell.

    Also you contradict Jesus who said said you would "NEVER" perish. He just won't/can't let that happen.

    John 10
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
    30 I and my Father are one.

    In this passage there are no conditions. The statement "my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me" these are statements of fact, characteristics of the sheep not conditions to be considered sheep.

    "I know them" - contrast that to those religious folks, prentenders, "workers of iniquity" to whom He says "I never" knew you, not "I knew you once but not now" but NEVER knew you.

    This is the ultimte "conditional" if you will.

    natters does Jesus know you? Then you will NEVER perish and no one (including yourself) can snatch you out of His hand.

    Here is how to know if He knows you:
    Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    Can we quench and/or grieve the Spirit?
    Of course, the Scripture declares it to be so.

    Then we must remove the offences which grieve Him or the voices of this world, which drown out the still small voice of the Spirit.

    Then we can know the reality of that "blessed assurance" here and now.

    Be assured brother natters, if you wander off, He will not turn you into a goat, but He Himself will come for you and make certain you never wander again (and it can be a horror show).
    I know because I've been there.
    This is my witness to His faithfulness.

    Psalm 40
    1 I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
    2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
    3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.

    I believe we can find full agreement in this:

    1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

    HankD
     
  3. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    S&N

    I agree with your whole post, try to understand my points with out the pre conseaved notion that OSAS teaches you do not have to obey.

    I will not assume that people who 5 years after conversion were never saved, I also will not assume they were saved. They may be either. Let me give you two situations.

    Person A went to church one Easter Sunday and heard an moving sermon by the preacher. Person A was moved and worried about his eternal life due to a recent close call during a car crash. Person A responded to the alter call said the prayer and was even baptized the same day. However Person A went home and on sundays he wanted to watch football, He never even feels like doing all the stuff other Christians do like help and follow all those rules. He never liked churchey stuff like reading the bible and besides he is already saved right.


    Wrong person A has not the Holy Spirit inside of him. He is not a new creature in Christ and because he is the same sinfull creature he is no better then any other sinfull creature with out Christ. The Lord will say He never knew person A.

    This is what you are referring to as "cheap grace, or easy beliveisem" This is not OSAS because like Ed says there was never OS once saved.

    Person B went to church one Easter Sunday and heard an moving sermon by the preacher. Person B was moved and worried about his eternal life due to a recent close call during a car crash. Person B responded to the alter call said the prayer and was even baptized the same day. Person B truly in his heart gave his life to Christ, at this moment he was indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Person B went to church, however because he was a new Christian and he did not seek out mentors to fellowship with he started going to church less and less. After a year Person B did not go to church anymore. He thought alot about God for some reason and wanted to go but because years had gone by he was almost embarassed to go. But the Holy Spirit was at work, Person B feels guilt and shame, his life is unfulfilled and he knows exactly what is missing. After 5 years of not going to church Person B decides to follow the prompting of the Holy Spirt and do what he always knew was right. He has matured alot since he was saved and starts going to church. Within a year he is doing all kinds of good works and obeying the commandments of the Lord.

    Person was saved the moment the Holy Spirit indwellet him. The moment he believed. Even though he fell into disobediance he was saved the Lord was working on changing Person Bs old sinfull nature into a new creature. After 5 years Person B was a changed enough creature to start to show outward signs of the faith that he had all along.


    Two things, first I was like person B. There was a time I did not go to church. I had alot of excusses, I worked long hours, no church clothing and shoes, dident know many people, wife was always late, bla bla bla. But I wresteled every sunday with my excuses and I believe I began to fall under punishment. I was defenantly under conviction. The Lord brought me back in line and now he is bringing me back in line in other areas. I supose He will always have correcting to do in me.

    Second neither you or I can tell if a person is A or person B. I will not even guess if somebody is saved and backsliden or unsaved. For that matter I will not even assume that the person who shows fruit is saved. Saved and unsaved is a judgement for the Lord, He can see peoples hearts.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with your assessment of person A. Never saved. I too, identify with person B except I was out of the church (except for Christmas and Easter) and rarely thought about God for 20 years.

    I came back at age 40 and have been very much involved not just in the church but in personal witnessing for the last 15 years. What if I had never come back? I see too much biblical support such as the verses I've quoted here that says I would have gone to HELL. If people want to not take those warnings seriously, fine. I choose to take them seriously myself and not try to rig up a way in which I can return to my former life and still have my salvation. This is called being a carnal Christian. I don't believe such a thing exists.

    I agree with you that God will always have a lot of correcting to do in my life as well. I'm not trying to set myself up as a "holier than thou" person. The opposite. I was the Prodigal Son.
     
  4. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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  5. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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  6. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    Absolutely. I've never claimed otherwise. We are saved through faith and grace. What we do with that is up to us. </font>[/QUOTE]
     
  7. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    The answer to that depends. If you were saved and fell away and died before you came back then you would have been saved. If you had never come back because you did not have the Holy Spirit indwellt in you, prompting you making you a new creature then you would pay the penalty.

    I suspect that like me you were saved, then fell away. It took the Lord 20 years of work to get you to the point where you are now. The Holy Spirit did not enter you, give up and leave, then change His mind and come back to you. He was always there working on you. Or you were not saved the first time and 20 years later came to belief in Christ and was saved for the first time.

    People who are trying to rig up a way in which to return to there former life are not saved. Again this is not, not OSAS. People may fall away, but they are being worked on. I believe you know when the Spirit is working on your life. We all should know how it feels to know that we are doing something wrong. To feel that conviction. People who are saved but not living a Christian life will feel this conviction. And lets be honest nobody is living the perfict Christian life, so we all feel this conviction of the Spirit. Some people just are further along then others.

    Last; even though I am far from a finished product. I can think of dozens of things that are sinfull in my life that I have not quite gotten rid of. If I die right now, even with all the sin still in my life. I thank the Lord that I will be judged according to the rightousnes of Christ, and not by my lack of rightousness.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Sister Roguelet -- You are RIGHT ON! [​IMG]
     
  9. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    God has an unlimited time but we do not. We need to do what the following verse says.

    2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
     
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