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One Gospel?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jul 23, 2005.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    ituttut,

    I would not put you outside the Body of Christ--that is not my role. You have great questions and maybe I can answer in a brief way that can give some clarity, at least from my point of view.

    I dont believe the real problem is with there being more than one Gospel. Romans 1:16--"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek" Notice it is Paul who states that there is the one Gospel that brings salvation to all.

    The references to Peter and to James you make seemed to indicate their misunderstanding as to the scope of the Gospel. They both believed it was for the Jew only---God brought correction to them through Paul and also through the vision He gave Peter. There is no indication that after that was settled in the book of Acts that Peter ever taught a different Gospel than did Paul.

    It is also clear that God has revealed in our dispensation the fullness of the Gospel in Jesus Christ. The OT saints looked forward to this revelation and Paul said that it was for the church that the mystery of the Gospel has been revealed. Faith in God has always been required for salvation, the understanding of how that faith is revealed and been fulfilled is seen in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it is through Him alone that salvation is received.

    That is my simple, short answer to your question. I hope it helps as you continue to search the Scriptures. As to those who say that God has not revealed His truth through the ages and work among His people differently through the different dispensations, I would say they are being willfully neglectful of what the Scriptures reveal concerning this. But in saying that, God has one Gospel and has been revealing that Gospel throughout the ages and has fully reveal the mystery of the Gospel through His Son Jesus Christ.

    Bro Tony
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have not mentioned dispensationalists or dispensationalism!
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    In John Chapter 4 Jesus Christ also showed that the Gospel was not for the Jews only.

    All we need do to fully understand the scope of the Gospel of Redemption in Jesus Christ is go back to the initial promise of Redemption, Genesis 3:15.
     
  4. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Then brother my response was not to you. It was to clarify those who did bring this into the topic that it is a misunderstanding of dispensationalism to say they believe in more than one Gospel. It was my point to state as you did that the Bible teaches one Gospel.

    In John Chapter 4 Jesus Christ also showed that the Gospel was not for the Jews only.

    All we need do to fully understand the scope of the Gospel of Redemption in Jesus Christ is go back to the initial promise of Redemption, Genesis 3:15.

    My point exactly. And that redemption was fully reveal in Jesus Christ, even though those in the OT did not know His name or when He would come.

    Bro Tony
     
  5. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Very good, and I might add very rational post Bro Tony.
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Am I wrong or did the Apostle John record these words for us straight from the mouth of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    John 3:16 [KJV]
    16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Am I wrong again or did the Apostle John then tells us?

    John 3:36 [KJV]
    36. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Am I wrong again or did our Lord Jesus Christ tells us?

    John 6:40 [KJV]
    40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Am I wrong again or did our Lord Jesus Christ tells us?

    John 6:47 [KJV]
    47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    Am I wrong again or did our Lord Jesus Christ tells us?

    John 11:25, 26 [KJV]
    25. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    26. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Am I wrong again or did the Apostle John tells us?

    John 20:31[KJV]
    31. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Am I wrong again or did the Apostle John tells us?

    1 John 5:13 [KJV]
    13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


    I am so pleased that ituttut finally believes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one and only true Gospel! Amen and Amen!
     
  7. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    OldRegular tries to explaining about the gospel. He is correct. I agree with him.

    Not every baptist either IFB, SBC or any organizations are dispensationalist. Many believe there is the only one gospel.

    Many dispensationalists agree there is the only one gospel. Yet, some believe there are few types kind of the gospel throughout the history since from creation to the end of the age.

    For example, some dispensationalism teaching there are seven ages of seven different purposes throughout the history of humandkind in God's plan. So, therefore, it is considering that they teaching different gospels.

    For example, dispensationalism teaches, many saints were saved by keeping the laws and good works plus faith during Old Testament. Today, saints are saved by through faith only, not of works such as Eph. 2:8,9., etc.. Future saints will be saved by keeping the laws, good works, plus faith during great tribulation period. Millennial saints who will be born(physical from their parents) during millennium period, will be saved by sacrificing animals, obey the laws, obey their King Jesus Christ.

    Also, pretrib dispensationalists teaching, Church which will failed to evangelizing over the world, so, 144,000 Jewish males will preach the gospel over the world, multitude of Gentiles will be saved during great tribulation period. Also, some saying Rev. 14:6 - the angel shall preaching an everlasting gospel to the nations, is DIFFERENT gospel than today's gospel according what Late John Walvword believes.

    Remember, book of Revelation shows heavily of symbolics and figuratives, not every are literal or physical. These are spiritual figuratives.

    144,000 represent of Christians over the world, not just only for physical nation - Israel or 12 tribes of Israel. Rev. 7:9-17; 14:3-4 explain more clear on the identify of 144,000 of Rev. 7:1-8, what they are.

    Genesis 3:15 emphasises talking about Calvary for salvation. Remember Adam and Eve both were not "Jews" or "Israel", neither they were so called, 'Gentiles'. Adam and Eve are just same human as we are.

    Genesis 3:15 is for EVERYONE throughout all centuries - the only one gospel is Calvary. Simple.

    Also, Apostle Paul emphasises us, that salvation always go through faith. Just same as Adam was saved by faith, Abel was saved by faith, Enoch was saved by faith, Noah was saved by faith, Abraham was saved by faith, Rahab the Harlot was saved by faith, Joshua was saved by faith, King David was saved by faith, etc... the same as we are saved by faith well as Old Testament saints were saved by the faith. No difference.

    Hebrews chapter 11 explains about the Old Testament saints' faith, same as we are saved by the faith only.

    Even, when the Antichrist revealed, and persecution will hit Church. Still we shall preaching the same old fashion of the gospel.


    ONCE when Jesus Christ shall come at the end of the world.

    Then, the preaching of the gospel will be DONE!!! Then come the Judgement seat of Christ upon all nations of all ages shall be faced.

    Very simple and plain, no complex.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  8. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Yes, DPT!!! And by that time we(us and Jesus) will turn you into a Premil so fast it'll make your head swim!!!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Your Southern Baptist preaching buddy,
    Bro. David
     
  9. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Thank you Bro Benjamin.
    Not true Bro DPT. "Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness" This is not faith plus works, this is just faith. "For by grace you have been saved through faith..." This is an eternal truth to all dispensations. It is a warped view of dispensationalism to state what you stated. You dont have to agree, but at least be correct in what you assert we dispensationalist believe.

    I state again dispensationalist do not teach more than one Gospel. You have to deal with the fact that as the Bible says all come to God by faith. But the fullness of that faith found in Christ Jesus was not fully revealed until He came. Thus, it was not revealed in Adams dispensation, nor Abraham's, nor David's. It was fully revealed to the church age, or dispensation, until then it was a mystery. That is what Paul teaches. It is not a matter of different Gospels for different ages, there is only one Gospel for all ages, but has been fully revealed in this age. That is what this dispensationalist believes.

    Bro Tony
     
  10. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    I attest to your knowledge and depth of understanding of the Word, and I say Amen. Contrasting in this discussion I see the culminating of the gospel beginning on Damascus Road. The gospel down through the ages, was good news, but it’s climax burst forth into all of the world when Christ revealed to Paul the heavenly gospel. God did not change, but His gospel did. God knew what was going to happen, and He had planned for it. The one that thought to overthrow the throne of God underestimated “his maker”. God outsmarted Satan, blindsiding him, to bring him (Satan) down. The “secret” had to be withheld until the proper time that God had set. “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8. Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory”. I Corinthians 2:7-8. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.
     
  11. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Am I wrong or did the Apostle John record these words for us straight from the mouth of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    John 3:16 [KJV]
    16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Friend OldRegular, we have been over this before. John wrote all of his books 30, to 35 years after the death of Paul, had talked to Paul and read all of Paul Epistles. Also the Temple had fallen, and Jesus intimated John would “tarry”, which He did. He was then free to preach the gospel of Paul to both the Jew, and also to the Gentile, for he had been released, after the death of Paul, from his (John) word not to go to, or teach the heathen.

    Am I wrong again or did the Apostle John then tells us?

    John 3:36 [KJV]
    36. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Am I wrong again or did our Lord Jesus Christ tells us?

    John 6:40 [KJV]
    40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Am I wrong again or did our Lord Jesus Christ tells us?

    John 6:47 [KJV]
    47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    Am I wrong again or did our Lord Jesus Christ tells us?

    John 11:25, 26 [KJV]
    25. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    26. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Am I wrong again or did the Apostle John tells us?

    John 20:31[KJV]
    31. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Am I wrong again or did the Apostle John tells us?

    1 John 5:13 [KJV]
    13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


    I am so pleased that ituttut finally believes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one and only true Gospel! Amen and Amen!
    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for seeing we both believe the One gospel of Paul, that Christ Jesus gave to him from heaven, that One gospel that God only allowed John to write, preach to the world, after bringing to the mind of John what He (Jesus) had told to His Apostles.

    We must ask the question of why John was not allowed to write his gospel, and Epistles before Paul, or at the same time. Why was none of the others inspired by the Holy Spirit to write as John, with full knowledge of the gospel of Paul? James wrote his book before Paul, but we know James had no interest in the heathen, and James works from a “works” based gospel. Peter wrote his book and it was for the circumcised only, for he was not released from his handshake with Paul, for he wrote shortly before Paul’s death, and before the fall of the Temple. We know Jude wrote to the Jew, after the death of Paul and most likely very close to 70 A.D.

    There is no Apostle that wrote or understood the gospel of Paul like John did. Christ did not give to John the gospel to the Gentile, but allowed him to join with Paul in the knowledge of the two foundations merging, and join in while “tarrying” till He returns. John’s gospel will “tarry” with Christ Jesus’ gospel of Paul, for this New gospel will be in effect until we are caught up with Him in the air. Notice that God pairs these two opposites together, revealing secrets to both; Paul first with the heavenly gospel, and then to John, not a new gospel, but the prophecy of further understanding for His people, of the end of all things. I say His people for the end of all things for we today in Christ is Christ Jesus, as He takes us before that which is contained in John’s book of Revelation he received from Jesus Christ.

    We never doubt the revelation to John of things New and of things told to Him by Christ, but the Christian church leaves a certain impression that all of the Word we are fed by Paul, may not be “kosher”. Christian faith, ituttut

    [ July 29, 2005, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: ituttut ]
     
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    ituttut

    First: I believe the ONE TRUE GOSPEL, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not the gospel of Paul, which Jesus Christ taught from the very start of His ministry. To declare otherwise is heresy!

    Second: You have no idea when John wrote his account of the ministry of Jesus Christ.

    Third: I have quoted Jesus Christ teaching His One Gospel to His Apostles at a time when Paul was an unbelieving Jew, who would in time persecute the True followers of Jesus Christ, the Church.

    I will repeat those Scripture again, hopefully, for your benefit.

    John 3:16 [KJV]
    16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 6:40 [KJV]
    40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:47 [KJV]
    47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    John 11:25, 26
    25. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    26. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Each of the above passages of Scripture are the direct teaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to His Apostles, teaching that Salvation is by Faith Alone.

    Yet you have the unmitigated gall to claim that God held this Gospel of Jesus Christ in abeyance until He revealed it to Paul some 30 years? later. What you are stating is that God allowed a false Gospel to knowingly be preached by the eleven Apostles, whom Jesus Christ had taught the One correct Gospel, until the call of Paul. Afterwards God allowed Paul to reveal the Gospel He had already revealed to His Apostles some 30 years earlier. I cannot believe that anyone who has experenced the Grace of God in Salvation would hold such a distorted view of God.

    If you want to worship Paul then you have the freedom, but not the right, to do so. However, if I believed such heretical trash I would be afraid to go to sleep at night.
     
  13. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Ah, now here is one associating with some of those good old Baptist that fills our churches, that condemn and assign to hell, because others do not believe exactly the same as they. However, most all Baptists know this is not true. They know even in the denominations, all are not placed in the same part of the Body of Christ. You have your place, and I have mine in Him. I will be raptured either dead or alive.

    Get your head out of the sand, and quit hating Paul. For some reason you refuse to believe your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as He spoke to Paul, and gave to Paul His (Christ Jesus’) gospel to give to this world. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    ituttut

    I believe that Jesus Christ gave Paul His Gospel but it was the same Gospel He gave to all His Apostles and followers from the time He began His ministry, the One and Only Gospel. It was this same Gospel that Paul states was preached to Abraham.

    It is bad enough that you try to splinter the Church, talking about a Peterine Church and a Pauline Church, but to try to splinter the Gospel is heretical.
     
  15. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    To the jew first.
     
  16. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    I see your still at it, steeped in animus. Do we, or do we not both believe we are saved by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to save us? There is no way I can call you a heretic, and I’ll not do so until I see you disclaim this truth.

    Until then, I’ll continue to know that you have yet to understand that “more perfect way”.

    Doesn’t Paul say “My Gospel”? If he has a gospel, it means there is someone else that has a gospel, and Paul marveled that some of another gospel, which is not another, were perverting the gospel of Christ. Wasn’t that gospel coming from the Jewish Pentecostal church in the land of Judah? There is an earthly gospel of Jesus, and a heavenly gospel of Christ. II Corinthians 5:16-17, ”Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” Paul was given that New gospel. Of necessity there must be two (2) gospels, for we know there are Two Foundations built on the Foundation of Jesus Christ.

    What strong demeaning words will you now use to show there is room for you to yet grow?

    Christian faith, ituttut
     
  17. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    ituttut,

    Doesn't make a sense to me. There is not a new gospel, not two gospel, but the only one same old gospel.

    I think you was trying to telling us about the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, which the Old Testament saints never have it.

    Same idea as John chapter 3, when Christ told Nicodemus, he must be born again. Nicodemus told Christ, he never hear it before. Is that a new gospel to him? No. I believe he failed to understand what the Old Testament scriptures talking about salvation.

    Throughout in the Old Testament books mentioned on repentance.

    'Ye must be born again' is speak of repentance.

    Notice John 3:15 mentioned about the snake was hanged on the pole, same as Christ died on the cross. They were healed by looked up on the snake by their faith just same as we look up on Christ by cross through our faith.

    Apostle Paul does not bring 'new' gospel to the Early Church. Paul taught them more clear and deeper and more understandable.

    Calvary is the center of the Old Testament and New Testament base upon faith only. Old Testament saints looking forward toward Christ by their faith. New Testament saints looking backward toward Christ by their faith. Both are no difference.

    Gospel means telling the good news. Gospel is about bring the good news of salvation and Jesus Christ.

    Apostle Paul never teaching two gospels, but one.

    Ituttut, I think you are mixed within what dispensationalism teaching.

    Dispensationalism seems bring kind of types of God's plan of salvation, like as teaching of different gospels.

    I disagree with dispensationalism teaching. Its make look so complex and conflict.

    Throughout Bible always emphasis salvation through faith and repentance, even also through the Blood of Christ of Calvary too. There is the only one old fashion gospel, nothing change since God taught Adam of Genesis 3:15 about the blood.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    This was posted on another thread but it seems to be appropriate on this one.

    From reading all of ituttut's posts one would think that there were only 3 Apostles, Peter, John, and Paul. I would remind him that there were 9 additional Apostles and that some of these traveled as far as India preaching to Gentiles.

    It is certain that Paul did not establish the Church at Rome. Who did? Did it not include Gentiles? Paul's letter to the Church at Rome would certainly indicate that it did. It wasn't Peter or John who established the Church at Rome since they were in Jerusalem.

    There is also one significant passage of Scripture in Paul's letter to the Church at Rome that dispensationalists have apparently never read since they continuously insist that God revealed some deep mystery to Paul that none of His people had heard before,

    Romans 1:1-7; 13; 16, 17
    1. Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    2. (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
    3. Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord
    , which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    6. Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
    7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    13. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

    16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


    From verse 2 we see that the Gospel of God, or the Gospel of Jesus Christ if you prefer, [this mystery that had supposedly been revealed only to Paul?] had been promised by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures [the Old Testament]. Yet dispensationalists insist that the Old Testament knows nothing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the Church even though Paul himself states that the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

    Also note that in verse 13 we see that there were indeed Gentiles in the Church at Rome and these Gentiles had not heard the preaching of the Gospel supposedly revealed only to Paul.

    Finally in verse 16 the apostle Paul defines the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

    Strangely in verse 17 the Apostle returns to the Old Testament to help define this Gospel stating The just shall live by faith. Habakkuk 2:4

    Dispensationalists such as ituttut tell us that the true Gospel was supposedly revealed only to Paul, meaning:

    1. That all the other Apostles were preaching a false Gospel until Paul came along.
    2. That Jesus Christ taught a false Gospel to his Apostles and followers.
    3. Since Paul apparently talked only to Peter and John how the remaining nine received the correct Gospel must remain a mystery.


    The doctrine of these dispensationalists is seriously flawed and the implications of what these dispensationalists teach is very dangerous.
     
  19. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    I think this may be catching. I have heard so many distortions of what dispensationalism teaches on this thread. What Ituttut teaches is not dispensationalism but his own view of things. I know of no credible teacher of dispensationalism who believes there is more than one Gospel.

    Bro Tony
     
  20. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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