Featured Only liberal denominations die?

Clinton and Carter were outliers; Carter famously disavowed any connection with the SBC a few years back. Clinton, for all intents and purposes, is a Methodist now.

I'm talking about those older members who do read their Bibles, but still can't find a hard stance on predestination as taught by younger pastors in there. Their thinking as far as soteriology would be closer to a John R. Rice, with a somewhat diluted form of Calvinism which basically boils down to "get 'em saved and then once saved, always saved" (the rank and file in the pew, that is. John R. Rice's view is more than likely far more detailed than that.) They think of themselves as Biblically and theologically conservative, and would likewise be disgusted at being lumped in with Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter.

The larger majority of those with views like Carter, including Carter, have formed a splinter movement called "Cooperative Baptist Fellowship", with many of their churches breaking away from the SBC (another source of decline).

 

Thanks for the background. I have met one SBC pastor and he taught that people just had to honestly say the sinner's prayer and then they would always be saved. I could not agree with him.

 

God would have to be the one that was honestly doing the work. In the case of this pastor, he just took the prayer as the incantation by which he determined a person was saved. Life change was secondary and thus all who said the prayer were welcome to serve in the church. His daughter struggled with addiction to cocaine, but was welcome to lead worship anyway.

 

The latest stats indicate the librial groups are in decline but they are not alone and indicate Evangelicals are barely holding their own which means the Evangelical are in fact in decline. The reason? We have allowed the education to by taken over by teaching we came from animals which nullifies morals and with birth control why do we need them. What they do not tell the darling is, it has never happened in science or the real world. It is bad science. And we collapsed to a liberal establishment who are contra wise to belief.

 

You are exactly right. Believing the gospel and saying a prayer (incantation, as you aptly word it) are completely independent of each other.

 

The reason all denoms are in decline has nothing to do with internal practices but it has everything to do with the changing culture.

 

If you count the group "nondenominational" as a denomination simply for purposes of tabulation, then you could not say all are in decline.
The ONLY Baptist church in our county that is growing has a pastor that is a professor at a Pentecostal seminary. That is a very telling fact.

 

All denominations die. That is, unless my limited understanding of heaven is significantly wrong.

But beyond that, there are a lot of good posts here about why we should be thinking about the health of evangelical denominations and what is being done to continue to propagate the Gospel to a lost and dying world.

 

They were mainstream at the time.

 

I have seen this and can affirm your observation.

"Bible stories and behavioral badgering" is the perfect way to describe the way I was raised in church. When I faced serious questions in my first semester of college (actually, not from anything in school, but from a family member), I had no intellectual anchor. All I had were a handful of oft-repeated Bible stories, a couple of powerful experiences (feelings), and a general sense that God was real. But I recognized that feelings came and went and Bible stories might not be true. A five minute conversation turned me immediately into an agnostic. Now, I didn't stay agnostic, I needed to know. So I began to figure of what was true on my own because I knew that if I mentioned my concerns at church, I would be shunned and condemned, just as the family member with whom I had the conversation. The massive condemnation he received from asking uncomfortable questions as a teenager, helped turn him into an angry atheist.

My story turned out much differently, because I purposely avoided asking for help in seeking God from the church.

Yep. You are hitting the issue squarely on the head.

I am one who believes that only the good soil, the fourth soil, represents genuine believers. The rest may be earnest, but they have not produced any fruit as a result of the seed taking hold. I think contemporary churches hold to the idea that the second and third soils are genuine believers because it justifies the lack of God-honoring fruit on display in their congregations. But a tree is known by its fruit. It will occur naturally.

That being said, there may be genuine believers in the congregation that are essentially dormant because they have not been given the complete gospel messing that involves training in the teaching of Jesus, and do not even know it is possible to follow Jesus in a practical and effective way upon this earth in this present life. When that message is presented consistently and effectively, those who are genuine believers will gladly receive the rest of the gospel message. Too often the gospel message is corrupted to simply be a theory of the atonement and a promise of heaven and fire insurance from hell. That's the message I heard as a child, well into my adult years until I started preaching the full gospel. I am now fortunately at a church where the pastor understands this and preaches the whole counsel of God.

 

Well, really bad theology churches flourish, see word of faith, modern day prosperity!

 

Agree. The kids should be the priority. They should be discipled, not baby sat.

Many adults are simply amazing. I have no idea what they do with their Bible, but they sure don't read it.

 

Never saw an answer, so repeating

 

Why do we care about a church denomination roll? The only book worth caring about is the Lambs book of life. Is our name on that roll? If so, great.
God has promised that not one person he has written in his book will be lost. We also know that those names were written in the book before the foundation of the world.
Our task is to be ambassadors of reconciliation. God's task is to save those written in the book.

 

I agree completely. It's just that Rev has a pretty consistent habit of dismissing concerns, then not answering when asked to elaborate

 

These are the last days and there will be a great falling away. Also, there are many doctrinal disputes that cannot even be peacefully discussed such as dispensationalism and abortion for rape and incest. For the time being, the worse declines are in the liberal churches who would have to close if they did not have large endowments to pay the bills.

Matthew 24:12 (KJV) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

The church is growing at a great rate in China. We must stop thinking that God considers the US to be the heart and soul of Christianity.

 

Maybe the people are leaving because they are not finding what they came for. The truth is people come to the church to be loved upon. Could it be they are not finding anything of value. They may be coming to be feed and when not finding any spiritual food depart.

 

You write: "The truth is people come to church to be loved upon."

That's a wrong reason to go to church. That is the reason that cults hook so many people. Cults "love bomb" people who are trying to feed their desire to be loved.

We go to church to glorify God and worship Him. It's about God, not us. A church that is worshipping God will be a place where the sinner will see their selfishness for what it is and will repent in conviction.

One of the great mistakes of the church has been changing the focus away from God and toward humans and their feelings. We try to make people comfortable and feel loved but that results in churches having to become more and more entertaining. We never see that approach in the Bible.

What we see is a church that worships God and is centered on the glory of God in spite of being very uncomfortable in the midst of persecution. The church thrived and sinners were convicted of their sin.

Being "loved upon" is a human centered reason to worship. Pouring out our love to God is the purpose of gathering together as a church.

I'll take a church of five glorifying God over a church of 15,000 looking for themselves to be "loved upon."