1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Only the Originals Are Inspired

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by SGO, Sep 28, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Pardon me SavedByGrace but I am using a quote you made in another thread to ask a different question.

    "ONLY the original Hebrew for the OT, and Greek for the NT, are Inspired by the Holy Spirit."

    This is a thought which I have read and heard many times over the years.

    I would like to know if this statement is in the bible or originates from the mind of men because I cannot find it in the scripture.
     
    #1 SGO, Sep 28, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
    and is profitable for doctrine,
    for reproof,
    for correction,
    for instruction in righteousness:
    that the man of God may be perfect,
    throughly furnished unto all good works."
    1 Timothy 3:16

    no "ONLY original scripture", just "all scripture".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    659
    Scripture tells us that people were inspired by Holy Spirit to write the original manuscripts. As far as I know, no reference in scripture to inspiration of Holy Spirit in transcription or translation into other languages thousands of years later.

    The big question is how faithful are translations to the original manuscripts? When comparing the thousands of Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, there is a remarkable consistency throughout, only minor differences for the most part.

    peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    OK. How about the Old Testament books/scrolls that were read in the synagogues during Jesus', the apostles, and other disciples, time on earth? Were they the "Originals"?

    If they were not, and only copies, (in Hebrew or Greek?) then why did Jesus, the apostles, and other New Testament writers, refer to them as scripture?

    Matthew 21:42, 22;29, 26:54, :56
    Mark 12:10, :24, 14:49
    Luke 4:21, 24:27, :32, :45
    John 5:39, 7:38, 10:35, 13:18, 17;12, 19:24, :28, :36, :37, 20:9,
    Acts 1:16, 8:32, :35, 17:2, :11, 18:24, :28
    Romans 1:2, 4:3, 9:17, 10:11, 11:2, 15:4, 16:26
    1 Corinthians 15:3, :4
    Galatians 3:8, :22, 4:30
    1 Timothy 5:18
    2 Timothy 3:15
    James 2:8, :23, 4:5
    1 Peter 2:6
    2 Peter 1:20, 3:16

    Oh, just copies, not inspired.

    Just like today when we refer to ANY English/other language bible as scripture?
    All the arguments that say one English version is better than another?
    If inspiration refers to the ORIGINALS ONLY what is the problem which version?

    Oh, that's right, mine is closer to the ORIGINALS than yours.
     
    #4 SGO, Sep 28, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    659
    There were no “books” as we know it today. Only scrolls on papyrus. There were a few other ways not widely used, but mostly scrolls.

    There is a lot of info concerning how OT manuscripts were transcribed by “scribes” prior to mass printing. Supposedly, one person would copy while two others would watch to ensure it was an exact copy. That practiced seemed to be followed by Christians concerning OT and NT writings.

    The proof of that is found in the widespread consistency between the thousands of intact manuscripts we have to study and compare.

    There are occasional deviations, but usually nothing that changes the meaning of a passage.

    When deviations occur, scholars must/should attempt to determine what the originals said.

    peace to you
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,171
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The only inspired text would be the originals, due to the Holy Spirit breathing it out from them!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,171
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lord Jesus told us that the Apostles were inspired by the same Holy Spirit as the OT Prophets were, and that would not be applied moving forward!
     
  8. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I am not asking about the original first writings from the Old Testament or the New Testament.
    I am asking about the copies of "scriptures" in the synagogues during the New Testament times.

    We have many "copies" and fragments now which no one that I know of is calling inspired scripture yet any time I have read an "accepted" translation of the bible it has always been referred to as "scripture".

    All the versions and their revisions, at least in English, are different. All are called scripture.

    Is the word of God hiding in all of them and we wait to be illuminated by the Holy Spirit while we read them?

    Can't trust every single word. The translations were all made by men who have differing philosophies about translating the meaning of the words and the ideas which are in the texts.

    Then we argue about which is the better and most reflects our common language.
     
    #8 SGO, Sep 28, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    659
    You are making an excellent point.

    I believe we can trust the translations to accurately reflect the inspired Word of God from the original manuscripts. The translations have minor differences that should be reconciled by a careful examination of the ancient manuscripts we have.

    Knowing how scribes preserved the writings from the originals should give us the confidence we need to trust the manuscripts to accurately reflect the inspired Word of God found in the original manuscripts.

    If we can’t have that kind of confidence in our bibles, then we are clanging cymbals that really have nothing to say.

    peace to you
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,171
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We have Infallible, not inerrant Bibles....
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    659
    An interesting distinction. What’s the difference?

    peace to you
     
  12. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So then what do you do when you run across this verse,

    " Every word of God is pure:
    he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."
    Proverbs 30:5

    Say this verse was mistranslated?
    That verse is "open to interpretation."?
    It really does not mean every word of God but every idea of God.
    It only refers to God's spoken word.
    Switch bibles until you get an authoritative one that does not say "every word."
    The verse must be taken in context.
    You must compare all the other verses in the bible to come to a coherent point of view.
    Part B only is true.
    It's every other word.
    It's only in the Hebrew.
    That was a promise for the original readers only.
    It's only the words that are (in my language) translated from the ORIGINAL text.
    All the ORIGINAL texts are gone, you dummy.
    It's a particular version's conspiracy.
    C'mon man! It's only one little verse!
    I have more important theological issues to deal with.
    I have studied Hebrew and the oldest, most reliable texts do not have this verse.
    SGO you are a pea brain and your argument is all wrong!
    No God fearing Christian or Jew would ever believe such hog wash!
     
    #12 SGO, Sep 28, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  13. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    Then as long as we can rely on the scholars it doesn't matter which version to read as long as you like the style.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,171
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Inerrant refers to every word in the Bible was accurate and true, so no variant readings period, as what was put down was always true!
    Infallible refers to while there some slight variant issues, such as actual numbers in the OT record, still is trustworthy message to us...
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,171
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Since we do not have any of the Originals, how can we support one translation superior to another then?

    Should not be based upon texts used, but translation style, formal, dynamic, gender inclusive or not?
     
  16. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Right on! No more fussin' and a fightin' over validity of inspired or not inspired texts! None are inspired since ONLY THE ORIGINALS ARE INSPIRED.

    Hey! I found the originals!

    "For ever, O Lord,
    thy word is settled in heaven."
    Psalm 119:89

    We will get to see them!
     
    #16 SGO, Sep 28, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
  18. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,652
    Likes Received:
    836
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Many of these ideas originate from the very nature and character of God

    A couple interrelated terms help to define the teaching involving the original writings.

    One is AUTHORITY.
    The original Word of God carries his full authority. God is communicating to humankind. He is the authority figure. He does not change. His words do not change.

    The second is INSPIRATION.
    God breathed out his Word. It was not the human author that was inspired to write Scripture, it is the words that were inspired, the original words of God, it is these words that we call our Scriptures.

    The original inspired Scriptures carry the full authority of God.

    Copies (and translations) are vested with the same authority of the inspired Word of God as they accurately convey the words and the message of the original document.

    By examining historical documents we find that written manuscripts differ in subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) ways.

    Rob
     
  19. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    326
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The sense I get is that God spoke the words and humans in their own situations inscribed them.
    These inscribed words from God were around a while long enough to be copied but the originals disappeared.

    The the excellent copies also disappeared and all we have now are copies that have been diluted and are in various percentages of accuracy.

    By comparing what exists now the experts can determine what is really the word of God but it has to be revised from time to time because 1.,
    more manuscripts and fragments are being found and 2., the translating target languages are changing.

    So God has been keeping some of His word buried but has had a partial hand in actually having His full word gradually become available to us and now through this arduous process we have almost all of it.

    The experts, working diligently, have made decisions as to what the word of God really is but from time to time have had to add and/or revise God's word.

    So the statement, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35 is still valid even though through much of the time we did not have His full words in our hands.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,652
    Likes Received:
    836
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When we compare NT quotes of OT Scripture we find differences.
    An exact translation process from Hebrew to Greek (or any other language) is impossible, and yet these inexact translations were still able to communicate the message God intended.

    The conclusion is that faithful translations can be made despite the small changes that occurred over time.

    God is faithful and will preserve his Word in order to communicate his message to all humankind.

    Rob
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...