OSAS and future sins?

[BrianT]

Some OSAS folk I've discussed things with tell me that when you are saved (when you pray the "sinner's prayer" or whatever critera you use to determine your moment of salvation), that not only does Christ forgive all your past sins, but that he also forgives all future sin at the moment of salvation - and in fact that's what guarantees eternal security in the first place.

Do all OSAS supporters believe this?

 

[WPutnam]

Originally posted by BrianT:
Some OSAS folk I've discussed things with tell me that when you are saved (when you pray the "sinner's prayer" or whatever critera you use to determine your moment of salvation), that not only does Christ forgive all your past sins, but that he also forgives all future sin at the moment of salvation - and in fact that's what guarantees eternal security in the first place.

Do all OSAS supporters believe this?

The bottom line is, it is simply a license to sin!

The OSAS'ers will hem and haw, claiming this is not so, but for all intents and purposed, that is exactly what it is!

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)

 

[PastorGreg]

Eternal security is not a license to sin - no hemming and hawwing here. In fact, to believe that it is demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the Biblical doctrine of salvation.

Are all sins forgiven? Judicially, yes. Christ paid for all of my sins on Calvary and I will never be judged for a single one of them. Practically, my fellowship with my Father is broken when I sin, and I must confess my sin in order to have that fellowship restored.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by PastorGreg:

Are all sins forgiven? Judicially, yes. Christ paid for all of my sins on Calvary and I will never be judged for a single one of them. Practically, my fellowship with my Father is broken when I sin, and I must confess my sin in order to have that fellowship restored.

Since you will never be judged for a single sin, what difference does it make then?

If you will still end up in Heaven, what difference does it make if your fellowship is broken?

 

[Yelsew]

Well stated Pastor Greg.

Sins are works, and our works will be judged as to their value. Sins are wood, hay and stubble, and their testing in fire will produce nothing but worthless ash. There is no redeemable value in sin, so why do it?

Once Saved Always Saved is true for each individual who comes to faith in Jesus Christ and never loses that faith. However, the letters to the spirits of the seven churches in Revelation provide ample warnings by God that man can lose faith and thus receive the justice deserved. With the warnings are advisement from God about what to do...Return to your previous condition. Remember and be restored, etc. So, OSAS is only true for those who never lose their faith

Like the parable of the sower and the seeds that fall on various kinds of ground, there is ground that allows the seed to take hold and begin to live, the ground may be too hard, rocky, unable to hold moisture that is essential for life, and once the "heat from the Son" sets in the soil is insufficient to sustain life and the plant (faith) dies because the soil is not good, not sufficiently prepared, or simply cannot retain moisture and nutrients necessary for faith to continue to live. There is also the good ground that is over run by weeds (the cares of the world) that choke out the faith that tries to grow. So yes, OSAS is True, but not for all!

That simple sinners prayer is merely the "first step" in response to Jesus' invitation for whosoever believeth in Him It is the ground receiving the seed!

 

[WPutnam]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PastorGreg:

Are all sins forgiven? Judicially, yes. Christ paid for all of my sins on Calvary and I will never be judged for a single one of them. Practically, my fellowship with my Father is broken when I sin, and I must confess my sin in order to have that fellowship restored.

Since you will never be judged for a single sin, what difference does it make then?

If you will still end up in Heaven, what difference does it make if your fellowship is broken? </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly!

We retain the free will to either continue to sin, or to reject sin. Or if we cannot sin, we are denied the free will of choice! We must continue in our love for God by always striving to continue down the path to Him, but when we do sin, we have the wonderful John 20:22-23 resources to fall back on, don't we?

Also, if sin is no longer something for us to worry about, it being "covered already," why does Satan still tempt us?

What a waste of time for Satan! As cunning as he is supposed to be, he foolishly continues to tempt us to sin, even seriously if we are still bound for heaven?

Just heaping more on top of your excellant reply, T2U!

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


- Anima Christi -

Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
Body of Christ, save me.
Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
O good Jesus, hear me;
Within Thy wounds hide me and permit
me not to be separated from Thee.
From the Wicked Foe defend me.
And bid me to come to Thee,
That with Thy Saints I may praise Thee,
For ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Me2]

there are ONLY two kinds of spirits.

the one you were physically born with..which is the spirit of Carnal flesh..another name for it is the spirit of antichrist.

and the spirit of Christ. which has proven to God the creator, to be Righteous, acceptable, and equal to the holiness of God Himself.

for anyone to understand the wisdom and understanding of God..one would have to have the spirit of Christ inside them, as the wisdom and understanding is OF THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. and opposed to the spirit of the carnal flesh.

the only way for a human being to receive this different spirit is to actually be...

pronounced spiritually dead and have their soul and carnal spirit seperated. whereas only God the creator can do this and place their soul together with ANOTHER spirit. the spirit of Christ.

then and only then can a human being accept and understand and make a viable decision concerning what they hear and see and intellectually reason about.. ie, the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

if anyone understands the Knowledge of the LORD JESUS CHRIST means that their old spirit has been pronounced and judged and sentenced to death. that God Himself has transplanted another spirit with your soul inside you


you now have spiritual eyes, spiritual ears and the faith of Christ to understand the knowledge of Christ with the Mind of Christ.

and I believe that he's been resurrected by the father and been declared innocent and oh yeah...eternal. his spirit cannot Die nor can he sin...uh, I mean you cant sin. its impossible.

understand..Jesus Christ's Spirit is attached to your SOUL

what a paradox. your "new" spirit cant sin. and it cant Die..because it already lived, died and has been resurrected from the dead and pronounced innocent, and sinless.

OSAS (once sinless, always sinless)

 

[BrianT]

I really don't want this tread to degenerate into a typical "OSAS: right or wrong?" thread. I want to only focus on the idea of future sins being forgiven at the "moment of salvation".

Pastor Greg, you said future sins are "judicially" forgiven, yet fellowship is still broken by future sin. What do you mean by "judicially" forgiven, and what do you mean by "broken fellowship"? How can they exist at the same time?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Me2:
his spirit cannot Die nor can he sin...uh, I mean you cant sin. its impossible.

understand..Jesus Christ's Spirit is attached to your SOUL

Um, what???

I prayed the "sinner's prayer", and believed it, many years ago when I was 7 years old. This morning, I sinned (not just this morning, that was the most recent. ) You're saying I didn't sin. Then what did I do? Can I do it again, please?

 

[PastorGreg]

Brian,

They are judicially forgiven, because God, as the judge, at the point of salvation, justifies me - He declares me not guilty - because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ. (Romans 3:19-31)From that point forward I am, positionally in Christ, righteous. His righteousness is exchanged for my sin. (II Cor. 5:21) God will never again charge sin to my account. (Romans 4)This is grace. This is salvation. All glory to God, I can do nothing to earn it, nor to keep it!

Practically, I still sin because I still live in this sinful flesh. Even though God, as judge, sees me legally through the lens of Christ's righteousness, thus will never rescind His proclamation of my justification, my sin breaks fellowship with Him as my Father. Confession of sin is for restoration of the relationship.

It matters, T2U, because I am a new person. I now have the Holy Spirit indwelling me, God is now my Father, I have been made alive spiritually, so I desire to please Him. To say that one can "get saved" and then live any way he wants to, thus making the belief in eternal security a license to sin shows a lack of understanding of all of these truths.

 

[PastorGreg]

Correction of my previous post - one can get saved and live any way he wants. He just has a new wanter now.

 

[Me2]

BrianT,

Christians Live by the faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

we are inseminated BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD. not by asking God to, but because he chooses whomever.

they dont have to do anything.

you can sin till the cows come home, but as far as God is concerned. When he see's you. He see's the righteousness of Christ. As the spirit of Christ is attached to your soul.

1 John speaks of

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

the presumption of sinning is one of error. If A child of God does not live ny faith. He is mislead by satan. satan will earnestly contend that Christ spirit is not within you. that is error. the new believer follows this error and if continues. does not Grow.

the truth is that Christ's Spirit is within you and HIS SPIRIT CANNOT SIN..or as other posters have added. Sin cannot be "added to your account".

This is concerning your SPIRIT...not your PHYSICAL BODY..your new spirit is in a new body in heaven and cannot sin. your old spiritual body and spirit has been declared dead and both have been deposited in death.

you cant sin...your old spirits dead

but thats concerning your old spiritual body and spirit. you've been given a new spiritual body and spirit. one thats already been judged once and for all.

If Christ spirit is within you. then your spiritual body and Spirit has been resurrected into heaven NOW.

 

[neal4christ]

Do all OSAS supporters believe this?

Yep, I do. Jesus took away the sin of the world (John 1:29). People go to hell for rejection of Christ, not their sin since Christ is the propitiation for not only our sin but the sin of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

As for those who say it is a license to sin, they need to see how Paul answers such objections (Rom. 6:1). True faith will not want to willingly abuse the grace of God.

Praise God Almighty that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1)! Those who hold such a low view of God's grace so as to want to abuse it are not his own. True faith will be worked out, not merely talked about.

God Bless All,
Neal

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by PastorGreg:
Practically, I still sin because I still live in this sinful flesh. Even though God, as judge, sees me legally through the lens of Christ's righteousness, thus will never rescind His proclamation of my justification, my sin breaks fellowship with Him as my Father. Confession of sin is for restoration of the relationship.

Yes, I understand each part individually. However, I don't understand how they can exist at the same time. How can one be fellowship be broken if he's looking at me through the lens of Christ's righteousness?

What is the result of having "broken fellowship"? What if some dies with broken fellowship?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Me2:
This is concerning your SPIRIT...not your PHYSICAL BODY..your new spirit is in a new body in heaven and cannot sin. your old spiritual body and spirit has been declared dead and both have been deposited in death.

you cant sin...your old spirits dead

but thats concerning your old spiritual body and spirit. you've been given a new spiritual body and spirit. one thats already been judged once and for all.

Um, again, what????? I have two spirits, two bodies??? If my new spirit and new body is already in heaven, secure, and my old spirit is dead and me old body basically toast, why shouldn't my old body do what it wants?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Do all OSAS supporters believe this?

Yep, I do.</font>[/QUOTE]I was "saved" many years ago. This morning I sinned. The sin I committed this morning was already forgiven many years ago? Then why should I ask for forgiveness *today*, if my sin was already forgiven and forgotten?

 

[Me2]

BrianT

we are resurrected spiritually and now what do you want to do with your physical Body which is still in this world.....

lets see there a little matter of... why did God really save you?.

dont you know that your becoming a living sacrifice to the Glory of God ?

that you are becoming a representative of Man and your memories and your very life is recorded as a living monument to the mercies of God to man.

what do you think that those who are not "in christ" will become.? if their lives are not glorifying to God?

that is what this is all about.

God is Creating a worshiping group of Human beings to represent all of Mankind.
or have you studied who are the "Sons of God"?
or perhaps that they will have reponsibilities or rather share in the inheritances of Christ in their future..

Lets see what are the inheritances of Christ?

the inheritances of Christ is to receive a creation of brothers and sisters to Love. thats it.

to love them and there you are representing a real "image of God" before your brothers and sisters. coming to them, to love them as CHRIST.

Lets see...whos inside you...hhhmmm?

Now If Jesus is your Lord..congradulations. you are becoming a walking talking representative created for works of Love to Gods creation. in an eternity of ages to come.

I'd admonish you to perhaps focus on those memories and events that Glorify God for that is what will be an eternal reward within you to others..all other events not glorifying to God will eventually be forgotten.

if Jesus is ONLY your christ. you are not, or have not become a member of the "sons of God". and therefore all your works will be destroyed up to this time because you have no,t by faith realized that you have been bodily and spiritually resurrected from the Dead, into heaven, nor have been tried by the holy spirit concerning such truths.

I said you were becoming a walking talking tape recorder.
The record button is turned on when Jesus becomes your Lord.

and your still yacking about sinning or OSAS????
thats childish stuff.
.
lets move forward to the real prize.
to the real living Hope.
to the real inheritance

Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by PastorGreg:
To say that one can "get saved" and then live any way he wants to, thus making the belief in eternal security a license to sin shows a lack of understanding of all of these truths.

Does that lack of understanding of those truths effect your salvation though?

In other words, is someone still saved if they do go about sinning willy-nilly becuase they figure it's all paid for anyway?

If not, maybe they don't misunderstand after all.

They are just having more to eat at the all you can eat buffet than you are.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Me2:
if Jesus is ONLY your christ. you are not, or have not become a member of the "sons of God". and therefore all your works will be destroyed up to this time because you have no,t by faith realized that you have been bodily and spiritually resurrected from the Dead, into heaven, nor have been tried by the holy spirit concerning such truths.

I said you were becoming a walking talking tape recorder.
The record button is turned on when Jesus becomes your Lord.

and your still yacking about sinning or OSAS????
thats childish stuff.

Uhhh... OK..... Maybe it's childish stuff to you, but it's what I'm asking about. Why not give a straight answer? Seriously, I prayed the "sinner's prayer", and believed it, many years ago when I was 7 years old. This morning, I sinned. You're saying I didn't sin. Then what did I do? Can I do it again, please?

Side note: interesting how many different views on "future sin" there are amongst OSASers.

 

[Me2]

BrianT,

If You have to Ask any Man for answers about God...

Your asking the wrong folks.

the holy spirit teaches every bit of Knowledge about God to you TWICE. first by wisdom (spirit to spirit) and secondly by understanding (experience accepted by faith).

combine the two "lessons" ans you Get knowledge

any knowledge of God is just that... You Know.
knowledge of God is a Part of you..just Like an arm. Its real and not "knowing something about". or "reading a book about". its strictly hands on.

You get your knowledge and I get mine from the same source. when we both have received, then we can compare interpretations. not before. here at the BB, I just Give you freely what I understand. either you agree or disagree.

now to your question...

Praying the sinners prayer without God imparting His Spirit inside you FIRST is meaningless.

the sinners prayer is a reaction of Gods Spirit being imparted within You..not an pre-invitation to take up residence. and if that is the case of God being imparted and afterwards the prayer being recited.. then it becomes a matter of acceptance of Truth by Faith.

If you say then that you have sinned. then you have been believing Satan and his suggestions that it is possible for you to sin.

Im saying you can say you sinned...but If you Understand that God's Spirit is inside you...that spirit within you cant sin. its already conquered over the Power of Sin.
its righteousness has been Proven equal and perfect and Holy and acceptable before God.

Are you saying that Jesus Christ Spirit is not within You?

If One confesses that the spirit of Christ is within them. Will Christ then decide to leave if one "sins"?

that is what your asking. isnt it?