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OSAS does not survive the "Sola Scriptura test" in Matthew 18..etc

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 9, 2018.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I see the empires of persia, greece, rome in the prophecy, and still awaiting that final Kingdom under the Beast still to come!
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I agree, it simply pointed out how aptly they describe you.

    Sorry, thought you were boasting.

    ;)

    So explain this verse:


    Hebrews 10:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



    I have started a whole new thread to show you what it means. Both you and Bob need to understand this, then you would not be denying the teachings of God's Word.


    Actually...you did that.

    I simply applied them to you.


    Actually, you did that.

    My judgment is of your doctrine, and it is false.

    You are the very one Paul warns about, and you are not even aware of that.

    The Gospel is still a Mystery to you, my friend.


    No, actually you don't. You have no understanding of Scripture.

    And if you looked at the original language once in a while you might find out why your doctrine is unholy and contrary to the Gospel.


    Actually, the position of once saved always saved, or properly, Eternal Salvation, is precisely what Christ came to bestow upon men.

    And I see you are still refusing to address a single point I have made. Can you ask yourself why that is?


    God bless.
     
  3. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    That did not specifically address the questions, would you be able to explain in further detail your position, to be clear:

    "... Interesting, so you believe then that the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26 etc KJB to be literal days to be fulfilled in the future? When do they start for you, what is the sign to begin counting?

    As I read, the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26, deal with "the vision" of Daniel 8, and it's "how long", begins in the Medo-Persian kingdom, of the Ram with two horns.

    Do you see the "1335" as part of the "2300" of Daniel or separate and distinct from it? ..."​
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    False witness?

    You correlate the commandments of Christ to the Ten Commandments and deny...

    So are you going to tell me, right now...that you do not teach that men must keep the Law?

    We will see how you teach how men are made perfect in the other thread.

    And if you don't mind, how about trying to address at least one of the points.


    God bless.
     
  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    According to 1 Peter 1:4 KJB, in context, why is the inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled reserved in Heaven:

    1 Peter 1:4 KJB - To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,​
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Please. Your attempt to correlate Israel to Jesus in a spiritual sense was pretty lame.

    I addressed all of it, so how about you returning the favor. If you want to address my points on this buffet you have prepared, then do so.

    You can't yank everything out of its context, OB.


    A false teacher seems just about right. You seek to bring men under bondage to the Law despite the many teachings against such doctrine, so yes, false teacher will do nicely.

    Maybe if you clean up your posting and cease with the footnote presentation, actually post the Scripture you see as relevant and supportive, you might find your doctrine is not supported by Scripture.

    Very colorful, to be sure, but like unto a well without water.


    '


    How about just addressing the points raised here?


    God bless.
     
  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Again, if you would address my points, you would save us both some time:


    1 Peter 1
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.



    I am not denying that we are immersed into God in eternal union, I am denying you replacing the position of those saved as the Elect with Jesus Christ...because He was God's Elect.

    While we are baptized into Christ...we do not become Christ. There will always be Him, and there will be you and I.

    Understand?

    And no more long posts for you OB, while you can certainly create some long posts, you don't seem to do very well responding to them.

    So here is one point. Address it.


    Continued...
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Matthew 18:15 KJB - Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

    Matthew 18:16 KJB - But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    Matthew 18:17 KJB - And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
    Can a brother who is in the body of Christ, be cast out of that body if after that person has believed, then chose later to sin and remain in it?

    1 Corinthians 5:1 KJB - It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

    1 Corinthians 5:2 KJB - And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [1 Cor. 5:5 says "may" [an 'if, based in condition of repentance' [as found in 2 Cor. 2:5-11 KJB], and not "will" [nothing guaranteed, since it is based in condition]]

    1 Corinthians 5:7 KJB - Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:​
     
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Nothing there that changes who the Elect in view are:


    1 Peter 1
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.



    And...?

    Are you trying to prove that you are L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teacher)?

    Doesn't nullify...


    1 Peter 1
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

    5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



    Who?

    The Elect. Those born again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


    That our faith might be in God...not our keeping of the Law.

    I would also point out that He was "manifest in these last times."

    No man was saved keeping the Law, no man will ever be saved by keeping the Law.

    And no man will maintain his salvation through keeping the Law:


    Galatians 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

    2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?



    Paul called those who were saved trying to keep the Law fools.

    I dunno...if the yoke fits...


    God bless.
     
  10. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    No, Paul stated that those who were attempting to be saved [ie justified] by keeping the law were foolish. Seventh-day Adventists do not teach that salvation comes by keeping the law. It comes of God's grace [a gift that cannot be earned in any way] through Faith. Obedience is the fruit, not the root. The 'tree' you paint us with, is upside down.
     
  11. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    L.O.S.T. [Left Obedience for Satan's Temptation].
     
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    No man trying to bring men under the toke of the Law, who is in direct opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

    ...can speak about love.


    The "operation" in view in this Chapter is the Incarnation.

    Jesus Christ is the Word of GOd, He is God, and He came to His Own, Israel, not the man, the people.

    This is not speaking about Creation.

    Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega:


    Revelation 1:10-11
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.



    Now, have I missed something you were trying to say here?


    Continued...
     
  13. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Oh, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying what you are trying to prove.


    God bless.
     
  14. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    God's law is Love, since it is a transcript of His character:

    Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    1 John 5:3 KJB - For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

    2 John 1:6 KJB - And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

    2 John 1:5 KJB - And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.​

    Obedience is the response to God's love, in the gift of Christ Jesus. The Law [Ten Commandments] is only a burdensome yoke to those walking in the flesh, not those walking in the Spirit, since the Law itself is spiritual [Romans 7:14 KJB], and to those walking in the Spirit, it is a delight [Psalms 1:2, 119:35,47,174; Isaiah 58:2,13,14], and Jesus' Law [the Ten Commandments], His yoke is therefore easy.

    [01.]

    God is JUST - [Romans 3:26]

    His law is JUST - [Romans 7:12]


    [02.]

    God is TRUE - [John 3:33]

    His law is TRUE - [Nehemiah 9:13]


    [03.]

    God is PURE - [1 John 3:3]

    His law is PURE - [Psalms 19:7,8]


    [04.]

    God is LIGHT - [1 John 1:5]

    His law is LIGHT - [Proverbs 6:23]


    [05.]

    God is FAITHFUL - [1 Corinthians 1:9]

    His law is FAITHFUL - [Psalms 119:86]


    [06.]

    God is GOOD - [Nahum 1:7]

    His law is GOOD - [Romans 7:12,16]


    [07.]

    God is SPIRITUAL - [John 4:24]

    His law is SPIRITUAL - [Romans 7:14]


    [08.]

    God is HOLY - [Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:15]

    His law is HOLY - [Exodus 20:8; Romans 7:12]


    [09.]

    God is TRUTH - [John 14:6]

    His law is TRUTH - [Psalms 119:142,151]


    [10.]

    God is LIFE - [John 14:6]

    His law is LIFE - [Matthew 19:17]


    [11.]

    God is RIGHTEOUSNESS - [Jeremiah 23:6]

    His law is RIGHTEOUSNESS - [Psalms 119:172]


    [12.]

    God is PERFECT - [Matthew 5:48]

    His law is PERFECT - [James 1:25]


    [13.]

    God is ETERNAL - [John 8:35]

    His law is ETERNAL - [Psalms 111:7,8]


    [14.]

    God is PEACE - [Isaiah 9:6]

    His law is PEACE - [Psalms 119:165]


    [15.]

    God is THE WAY - [John 14:6]

    His law is THE WAY - [Psalms 119:30-32]


    [16.]

    God is SURE - [2 Timothy 2:19]

    His law is SURE - [Psalms 19:7, 111:7,8]


    [17.]

    God is UNCHANGING - [Malachi 3:6]

    His law is UNCHANGING - [Psalms 111:7,8]


    [18.]

    God is SWEET - [Psalms 34:8]

    His law is SWEET - [Psalms 19:10, 119:103]


    [19.]

    God is WISE - [Psalms 111:10]

    His law is WISE - [Psalms 19:7]


    [20.]

    God is OUR MEDITATION - [Psalms 63:6]

    His law is OUR MEDITATION - [Psalms 1:2]


    [21.]

    God is JUDGE - [Psalms 50:6]

    His law is JUDGE - [James 2:12]


    [22.]

    God is ENLIGHTENMENT - [Psalms 18:27]

    His law is ENLIGHTENMENT - [Psalms 19:8]


    [23.]

    God is LOVE - [1 John 4:7,8]

    His law is LOVE - [Romans 13:8-10]


    [24.]

    God is CLEAN - [Psalms 19:9]

    His law is CLEAN - [Ezekiel 22:26]


    [25.]

    God is BLESSED - [Psalms 28:6]

    His law is BLESSED - [Exodus 20:11]


    [26.]

    God is DELIGHT - [Psalms 37:4]

    His law is DELIGHT - [Psalms 1:2]


    [27.]

    God is WONDERFUL - [Isaiah 9:6]

    His law is WONDERFUL - [Psalms 119:18]


    [28.]

    God is LIBERTY - [Isaiah 61:1]

    His law is LIBERTY - [James 1:25; Psalms 119:45]


    [29.]

    God is COMFORT - [Psalms 23:4]

    His law is COMFORT - [Psalms 119:50]


    [30.]

    God is OUR SONG - [Revelation 15:3]

    His law is OUR SONG - [Psalms 119:54]


    [31.]

    God is MERCIFUL - [Exodus 34:5]

    His law is MERCIFUL - [Psalms 119:58]


    [32.]

    God is KNOWLEDGE - [Isaiah 11:2]

    His law is KNOWLEDGE - [Psalms 119:66]


    [33.]

    God is HOPE - [Psalms 130:7]

    His law is HOPE - [Psalms 119:74]


    [34.]

    God is LIFE - [Psalms 36:9]

    His law is LIFE - [Proverbs 3:1,2]


    [35.]

    God is SOUND - [Proverbs 8:13,14]

    His law is SOUND - [Psalms 119:80]


    [36.]

    God is UNDERSTANDING - [Psalms 147:5]

    His law is UNDERSTANDING - [Psalms 119:99]


    [37.]

    God is HAPPINESS - [Psalms 146:5]

    His law is HAPPINESS - [Proverbs 29:18]


    [38.]

    God is JOY - [Psalms 16:11]

    His law is JOY - [Psalms 119:162]
     
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Sounds nice, but what is specifically taught is that those who received Christ when He came as God manifest in the flesh...were given the power to become the sons of God.

    First point you need to learn is that this was not taking place prior to the Incarnation.

    Second thing you need to know is...


    Romans 1:16
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.



    You can see that right in the verse:


    John 1:11-13
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



    For...


    1 Corinthians 1:23-24
    King James Version (KJV)

    23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

    24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.




    1 Corinthians 2
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:



    Its amazing how many are still out there that have eyes, and have not seen, have ears, and have not heard, and it has not entered into their hearts the things GOd has prepared for them that love Him.


    Continued...
     
  16. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    What twaddle.

    Try reading what it is you are trying to comment on, my friend:


    John 1:11-13
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



    Man's "will" plays no part in the operation of the Spirit in Salvation.

    Says so right there.


    Continued...
     
  17. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Tell that to Paul.

    I don't recall Paul taking time to sort out his "free will."

    While I agree salvation is not forced on people, you take the wrong perspective. I run into your house and say "Your house is on fire, get out," do you use your free will to get out?

    No, hopefully, you will respond in the only rational way, which is to agree.

    Unfortunately, when it comes to salvation, man's nature leads him against common sense.

    "Thus?" lol

    Let me guess, "It must have been possible for Nicodemus to be born again if the Lord commanded men must be," right?

    Let me remind you the Lord also told men to believe on Him, but not one man did, not even His disciples:


    Mark 16:9-14
    King James Version (KJV)

    9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

    11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

    12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

    13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

    14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.



    No man was born again prior to Pentecost.

    Regeneration, being made alive...is a result of the indwelling of God. We are born again by the resurrection of Christ, which pretty much means no man was born again prior to the Resurrection.


    Continued...
     
  18. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    God is arbitrary then, for some are "born", others are not?
     
  19. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Wanted to point out another error of yours, since we are here: Christ never baptized with water.

    If you actually read your Bible instead of the doctrines of men, you might already know that. Now pay attention to how Christ batpizes:


    Matthew 3:11-12
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


    No water in view.

    The two baptisms are defined, One Baptism...


    Matthew 3:11-12
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.



    Being baptized with the Holy Ghost is Eternal Salvation (in green). Being baptized with fire is Eternal Judgment (in red).

    That is what Christ baptizes with, not water.

    And the disciples were not baptized by Christ until Pentecost:


    Acts 1:4-5
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

    5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.



    You need to understand this.


    Continued...
     
  20. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    1 Samuel 10:6 KJB - And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

    1 Samuel 10:7 KJB - And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.

    1 Samuel 10:8 KJB - And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.

    1 Samuel 10:9 KJB - And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
    King Saul was born again of the Holy Ghost, yes or no?
     
    #200 One Baptism, Mar 12, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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