ScottEmerson
Active Member
I've been to non KJVO churches and I have NEVER heard this happening. This, I would say, is a straw man.
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Our church adopts the ESV
- Thread starter go2church
- Start date
One thing came to mind, doubt. When you get home and read another version and it says something different, you begin to doubt your pastor. If we used your plan, noone would have to bring a bible to church, because it would be sitting at home waiting for you to open it. It is nice to read word for word as the pastor reads, makes good comprehension. </font>[/QUOTE]If a true preacher, preaching a God-inspired Baptist message from a KJV Bible, preaches it true to context and gives something doctrinal, The same message can be found in any version. Now if they preach their OPINIONS about things, and on subjects that have no biblical background, like say, if your preacher states, "only the KJV is the True, inspired, preserved word of God for the English speaking people of today.", then there will be no text in any version to back that up. Even the KJV. You see that statement is a LIE, backed by the father of lies. I thought preachers were supposed to only preach the truth. By the way, how many sermons have you heard that either had that statement in them, or GOD FORBID were built around that subject. If the statement is a lie, where did the preacher get the statement? Something to think about. The old serpent is back at his garden techniques again. Stating lies to waste time from soul winning. So many are blinded by the devils attempts to get us serve anyTHING but God.
RaptureReady
New Member
I've been to non KJVO churches and I have NEVER heard this happening. This, I would say, is a straw man. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Straw man on your part yes. Common sense tells us that if you read along with the reader, you have better comprehension. Less confusion on what the reader is reading.
RaptureReady
New Member
I've heard that statement before and I believe that statement. I'd rather believe that than believe, "sorry, but we do not have the True, inspired, preserved word of God for the English speaking people of today," all we have is just the best we can get from God. That my friend is false. If we do not have the True word of God today, how do you and I know the truth of our salvation?
ScottEmerson
Active Member
I've experienced the love of Jesus Christ in my life, and I have a personal relationship with Him. I don't have to have a perfect Bible to somehow validate that experience, and I would hope that you or any other Christian don't either. Indeed, many, many Christians have accepted Christ by only hearing the gospel message, using a variety of translations. We know the Truth through the Holy Spirit. I wonder if it grieves Him when we diminish that power because we have to hold on like crazy to an errant belief in the KJV.
HB,
You are back on this kick again. The reality is far different. When I sit in a service, I carry something different than the version teh preacher is preaching from so that I can understand better. I can hear. I don't need to both read and hear. By reading in a different version, I can get a better sense of the text.
SEcondly, if a pastor is preachign correctly, then he will preach the text, not the translation. A proper message will preach from any faithful version. If he has done his homework, he will reference major translational differences. I had to do this last night in 1 Thess 4:15 where the KJV is so outdated as to give a completely wrong message. No one there had a KJV so they weren't terribly confused by it. But they could have been and if they believed the KJV, they would have been wrong.
Thirdly, if you have a question, ask your pastor or someone who knows. I have people all the time asking me questions. Last night, for about 15 minutes before our Bible study, I talked with a group of people about James 5:13ff and some confusion that had come up from Sunday's ABF class that I wasn't at (because I was teaching the teen class while our youth man is on vacation). The simplest thing is "ask" if you are confused.
Lastly, don't assume that people have the same struggles with the text that you do. I have found very few people who face these kinds of issues in reading the text. I routinely have four different versions in my ABF class and I wish someone would buy an ESV so we could have five. I routinely ask people to read from different versions and if there is a different translation, I pick someone who has that translation on purpose. It is a great chance to show that the word of God is the word of God even in other translations. More and more, it sounds like you need to avail yourself of a good Bible teaching church that will help you to dispel some of these notions you struggle with in this area.
You are back on this kick again. The reality is far different. When I sit in a service, I carry something different than the version teh preacher is preaching from so that I can understand better. I can hear. I don't need to both read and hear. By reading in a different version, I can get a better sense of the text.
SEcondly, if a pastor is preachign correctly, then he will preach the text, not the translation. A proper message will preach from any faithful version. If he has done his homework, he will reference major translational differences. I had to do this last night in 1 Thess 4:15 where the KJV is so outdated as to give a completely wrong message. No one there had a KJV so they weren't terribly confused by it. But they could have been and if they believed the KJV, they would have been wrong.
Thirdly, if you have a question, ask your pastor or someone who knows. I have people all the time asking me questions. Last night, for about 15 minutes before our Bible study, I talked with a group of people about James 5:13ff and some confusion that had come up from Sunday's ABF class that I wasn't at (because I was teaching the teen class while our youth man is on vacation). The simplest thing is "ask" if you are confused.
Lastly, don't assume that people have the same struggles with the text that you do. I have found very few people who face these kinds of issues in reading the text. I routinely have four different versions in my ABF class and I wish someone would buy an ESV so we could have five. I routinely ask people to read from different versions and if there is a different translation, I pick someone who has that translation on purpose. It is a great chance to show that the word of God is the word of God even in other translations. More and more, it sounds like you need to avail yourself of a good Bible teaching church that will help you to dispel some of these notions you struggle with in this area.
RaptureReady
New Member
I've also experienced the love of Christ in my life and I also have a personal relationship with him, but we would not know who he is and how to have that personal relationship with him if it were not for the Bible. Example is, the mormons speak of Jesus Christ, but it's not Jesus Christ that's in our Bible. Sure, the Holy Spirit bears witness, but as 1 John 4:1 says, we are to try the spirits whether they are of God. How do we try the spirits if we don't have something TRUE to try them with. BTW, the Holy Spirit also bears witness to his word. For me, I know when I read a passage from another poster if it is the KJB or something else. That's why the Holy Spirit will lead you to all truth.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
That's funny - the Spirit is quite clear to me that the use of MV's is perfectly acceptable and Truth. Wonder how that is?
RaptureReady
New Member
This to me is just crazy. How can you understand better and get a better sense of the text if you can't read word for word? When I went to school me and the teacher had the same book, with one exception, theirs had the answers. For me to use another book than the teacher was leading me to a big fat F.
Curious, what was the problem with the 1 Thess 4:15?
Yes, I agree. But why ask a question about another versions texts when it would be simplier to read the same texts your pastor is reading.
So what do you use as your final anuthority to correct errors?
RaptureReady
New Member
That's funny - the Spirit is quite clear to me that the use of MV's is perfectly acceptable and Truth. Wonder how that is? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]That's why I say the spirit of the anti-Christ is rapid today. He is leading good people the wrong way.
Pastor KevinR
New Member
Hi HB,
Our church uses two versions, KJV1982(aka NKJV), and KJV1769, and it's helpful for us to get a fuller "sense of the Scriptures", as the AV1611 translators said in their preface.
Allow me if I may to give a human example, I hope will suffice:
Imagine you have a room full of people, and a person says something to them and only 1/2 understand, then another person says the same thing using different words and then the rest understands.( I wish I could think of an example), my point is that now all understand by seeing through different "windows". I hope this is not a poor example, if so forgive me. Since I've moved to New York from Kentucky back in 1985 I've learned that "soda" means here what "coke" means in Kentucky, and "pop" means in Michigan (I spent two summers there working in a Christian camp
). If you go to Canada what we call napkins, they call "serviettes" (I think), what we call one thing here in the USA, in England, there's another word. My point, albiet inadequate is that as long as the translations all mean the same thing, what's the problem? Various translations, in my view, doesn't hurt but enhances Scripture. Again the AV translators said, "a variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out the sense of the Scriptures" AV1611 Preface, page 13.
Our church uses two versions, KJV1982(aka NKJV), and KJV1769, and it's helpful for us to get a fuller "sense of the Scriptures", as the AV1611 translators said in their preface.
Allow me if I may to give a human example, I hope will suffice:
Imagine you have a room full of people, and a person says something to them and only 1/2 understand, then another person says the same thing using different words and then the rest understands.( I wish I could think of an example), my point is that now all understand by seeing through different "windows". I hope this is not a poor example, if so forgive me. Since I've moved to New York from Kentucky back in 1985 I've learned that "soda" means here what "coke" means in Kentucky, and "pop" means in Michigan (I spent two summers there working in a Christian camp
). If you go to Canada what we call napkins, they call "serviettes" (I think), what we call one thing here in the USA, in England, there's another word. My point, albiet inadequate is that as long as the translations all mean the same thing, what's the problem? Various translations, in my view, doesn't hurt but enhances Scripture. Again the AV translators said, "a variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out the sense of the Scriptures" AV1611 Preface, page 13.RaptureReady
New Member
Hi Pastor KevinR, first the translators did not say this, S. Augustine said it. I believe this talks about marginal notes which I do not hold as scripture, they are fallible. I understand that words can have different meanings, but if you follow along word for word as your pastor reads, there should not be any misunderstanding.Originally posted by Pastor KevinR:
Hi HB,
Our church uses two versions, KJV1982(aka NKJV), and KJV1769, and it's helpful for us to get a fuller "sense of the Scriptures", as the AV1611 translators said in their preface.
Allow me if I may to give a human example, I hope will suffice:
Imagine you have a room full of people, and a person says something to them and only 1/2 understand, then another person says the same thing using different words and then the rest understands.( I wish I could think of an example), my point is that now all understand by seeing through different "windows". I hope this is not a poor example, if so forgive me. Since I've moved to New York from Kentucky back in 1985 I've learned that "soda" means here what "coke" means in Kentucky, and "pop" means in Michigan (I spent two summers there working in a Christian camp
Pastor KevinR
New Member
Hi Pastor KevinR, first the translators did not say this, S. Augustine said it. I believe this talks about marginal notes which I do not hold as scripture, they are fallible. I understand that words can have different meanings, but if you follow along word for word as your pastor reads, there should not be any misunderstanding. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi HB, The AV Translators did say this, look it up in your KJV preface (most KJV's today do not retain it), and read it yourself on page 13. I'm sure there's a website out there that has the preface. Now it is possible that the quote originated w/ Augustine, I don't know. Have a nice day!Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor KevinR:
Hi HB,
Our church uses two versions, KJV1982(aka NKJV), and KJV1769, and it's helpful for us to get a fuller "sense of the Scriptures", as the AV1611 translators said in their preface.
Allow me if I may to give a human example, I hope will suffice:
Imagine you have a room full of people, and a person says something to them and only 1/2 understand, then another person says the same thing using different words and then the rest understands.( I wish I could think of an example), my point is that now all understand by seeing through different "windows". I hope this is not a poor example, if so forgive me. Since I've moved to New York from Kentucky back in 1985 I've learned that "soda" means here what "coke" means in Kentucky, and "pop" means in Michigan (I spent two summers there working in a Christian camp
Pastor KevinR
New Member
HB, I just looked it up again in my KJV preface, and Augustine said this* (see above posts), but the Translators were obviously in agreement.
Taufgesinnter
New Member
I've experienced the love of Jesus Christ in my life, and I have a personal relationship with Him. I don't have to have a perfect Bible to somehow validate that experience, and I would hope that you or any other Christian don't either. Indeed, many, many Christians have accepted Christ by only hearing the gospel message, using a variety of translations. We know the Truth through the Holy Spirit. I wonder if it grieves Him when we diminish that power because we have to hold on like crazy to an errant belief in the KJV. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!
Taufgesinnter
New Member
The brain is wired to learn and absorb languages before adolescence. It's practically automatic--kids are like sponges for foreign languages. After adolescence hits, it takes some effort. After adolescence is past, unless someone is specifically gifted for languages, it takes real work.
My second-grade teacher taught us a little Spanish, a chunk of which I still can recall, and even more that I can recognize. I vaguely still recall a little of the sign language my fourth- and fifth-grade teacher taught us. And I ended up sweeping through German courses in college after I'd already taken it in seventh, eighth, and ninth grades.
Learn languages in childhood and you can keep them for life. Learn them early enough and you can speak with a native accent. Reinforce them often enough in childhood and you can be fluent for decades.