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Parenthood Unconstitutional?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by carpro, Nov 3, 2005.

  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200511\CUL20051103b.html

    Appeals Court Declares Parenthood Unconstitutional, Group Says
    By Susan Jones
    CNSNews.com Senior Editor
    November 03, 2005

    (CNSNews.com) - A new ruling from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is prompting cries of judicial activism.

    On Wednesday the court dismissed a lawsuit brought by California parents who were outraged over a sex survey given to public school students in the first, third and fifth grades.

    Among other things, the survey administered by the Palmdale School District asked children if they ever thought about having sex or touching other people's "private parts" and whether they could "stop thinking about having sex."

    The parents argued that they -- not the public schools -- have the sole right "to control the upbringing of their children by introducing them to matters of and relating to sex."

    But o n Wednesday, a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit dismissed the case, saying, "There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children...Parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students."
     
  2. Carolina Baptist

    Carolina Baptist Active Member

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    If anyone outside to the school system asks the same questions of the children, there would be a criminal investigation and possible indictments.

    It seems that the school system is considered above the parents and above the law.
     
  3. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    The 9th circuit is the most liberal in the country. In fact they are radically liberal. You never no what will come out of that court.
     
  4. emeraldctyangel

    emeraldctyangel New Member

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    Sure you will Bunyon. Take what makes absolute sense for the majority of whom it effects and pick the exact polar opposite. Although the 9th is full o'kooks, I see the point of the 'fundamental right of parents being the exclusive provider of information...' because if that were held true, we could sue television producers, writers, actors, stations, and sponsors for the crud that appears on tv each day.

    That would leave absolutely no time for the members of the 9th to get free plastic surgery and take long vacations.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully disagree eca,

    I do beleive that the parents have a right to be "the exclusive providers of information..." They can control what their kids see on the telly, they should also have a voice in what is being provided in the schools.
     
  6. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    Emeraldactyangel, I see your point saying parents are the sole providers of this type of info could be a slippery slope. But there sould have been some legal approach to prevent a school from asking questions about sexual thoughts.

    There is something evil about asking an inoccent 2nd grader if he had ever wanted to touch someone's private parts. It is sick! I can remember when I was in 2ng grade. I did not know what sex was and I did not want to touch other peoples sexual organs. Why did the school feel the need to ask souch qestions. I understand the kids are exposed to more info now a days, but still a stranger asking you 7 yr old had they wanted to touch someones sexual organs. I think they should have at least granted the parents exclusive rights until the age of puberty. But of cours liberals want the village and school to be the granter of their approved values to hour kids. "it takes a village"!!!!
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Right on, Roger. [​IMG]

    I wouldn't freak out over this decision much anyway. This court is so out of touch with reality that I think it is the most overturned court in the nation.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Okay, I do not necessarily agree with a lot of the decisions of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, but did anyone actually read the opinion of the court? I would hardly cry judicial activism. The decision was based on earlier Supreme Court rulings as well as rulings in other judicial circuits, such as the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals.


    Fields v. Palmdale
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Do you agree with this decision? I don't. The decision was idiotic.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    It's so sad. Blah blah blah.
    The government does this and worse quite regularly. A few people will whine and then they'll get over it. It's getting sooo predictable. The Christian right will send out a petition and the most devout will sign it, the majority of which won't even be from that district or even from California, they'll be from the south so it won't matter a lick to anyone actually experiencing the problem since the opinion of someone outside the state has the value of exactly how much your opinion weighs when you spit it out onto your postal weight scales.
    Then it'll be over. Someone will point out that our boys are still in Iraq and everyone will focus on what a great country we are and how free and how wonderful that we're freeing the Iraqis so they can have access to the same educational systems and governments as we do because they're so great, blah blah blah, and maybe we'll even see a new onslaught of cheap stick on flags bought at Quickie Marts (sold next to the flag tie pins and flag bubble gum beside the fluorescent lighters that say "hot chick") and stuck on cars to prove to other drivers that we are, indeed, good citizens.
     
  11. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    I heard today that they are trying to get something passed that will split up the 9th Circus Court of Appeals.

    Ya know, they are the most overturned court in our country?

    And I think I heard that they are also one of the largest districts in the country....which means lots of cases don't get heard, too.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Feel better, Gina?

    Now, back to reality. It was a bad decision made by a bunch of liberal loons who are so out of touch with reality that they are the most overturned court in the nation. This travesty, too, will be appealed to the Supreme Court and overturned.

    BTW, the war on terror and patriotism has nothing to do with this topic. Why don't you start another topic and rant there if you want to discuss the war on terror?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    It fit in with this topic in light of what WILL happen.

    Go ahead and wait and see.

    The parent gives the government authority over their children during school hours when they enroll their children in that government run institution. The school has every right to introduce that topic to the children.

    If something like this is overturned then it opens up a total chaotic mess and new cases left and right and up and down every other which way. It isn't gonna happen.
     
  14. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Joseph,

    No, I do not agree with the decision, but the SCOTUS will not hear this decision any time soon. The 9th Circuit affirmed the District Court decision to dismiss the case without prejudice to be re-filed with the state court.

    Frankly, the parents should not have signed a permission slip to participate in the survey, without first requesting a copy of the questions. It is a public school, and anytime my child is sent home with a permission slip to participate in any type of study that will be used to develop a baseline program for the entire school district, I question it. That is just common sense, imo.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Gina,

    The government does not have complete authority over their children during school hours. There are limits regardless of how bitter you are with bad experiences with the government and your kids or your friends kids in the past. Again, you are off topic. If you want to discuss your rantings, start another thread. This ruling will be overturned because it is idiotic.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    1. I agree that parents should pay better attention about what is going on with their children. Sadly, I can tell you that many parents are clueless about their children and their education. Interestingly enough, about 2 weeks ago, during parent teacher conferences, the same old thing happened as has happened every year I have taught. The majority of the parents who showed up were not the ones with children with bad grades, bad behavior, etc...

    2. There is an extinuating circumstance here that the survey that the parents were told was going to be used was different than the one the children actually saw.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    This has everything to do with parental rights, government authority, and exactly how much control they may have over our children. That is the topic. LOL!
    Since when do parents control the curriculum in public schools?
    They don't, and won't. Simple as that.

    You're telling me to leave the thread? How cute. No.
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Parents absolutely do have a say in the cirriculum. It is called school board meetings, etc...

    Unfortunately, most don't show up unless they are upset about something. Seen it many times. The government does not have ultimate authority over our children. They have what is considered reasonable authority in lieu of the parents. Overturning this idiotic ruling will not destroy that.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    They also have a say in court rulings. It's called voting.
    Not everyone can be a school board member.
    Anyone can vote.
    There's really no point arguing over it. Let's wait and see what really happened and what really happens, shall we?
     
  20. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    The majority of the parents who showed up were not the ones with children with bad grades, bad behavior, etc...

    Amen! Could not agree with you more.

    There is an extinuating circumstance here that the survey that the parents were told was going to be used was different than the one the children actually saw.

    I disagree, in that the permission slip said that the goal of the study was "to establish a community baseline measure of children's exposure to early trauma (for example, violence)." That is an immediate tip off to me, not to mention the fact that it was a collaborative effort with the CSPP. The "sex" questions were only about 10 questions out of three different surveys, and with all the news of pedophilia in the news nowadays, it only makes sense to me that they would include some questions to that fact. Do I agree, not necessarily, but that is the reality of it. I generally believe in and support academic research, however, when it comes to my child, I always ask what the survey entails.
     
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