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Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Biblical Election doctrine can be compared with the Arminianism articles of Remonstrance, and with the points of Calvinism (TULIP) using the acronym ELECT.

    The five articles of remonstrance
    1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in Him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. (In other words predestination is said to be conditioned by God's foreknowledge of who would respond to the gospel)
    2. Christ died for all men (not just for the elect), but no one except the believer has remission of sin.
    3. Man can neither of himself nor of his free will do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Though accused of such, Arminius and his followers were not Pelagians.)
    4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible.
    5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it is possible for a believer to fall from grace.

    The five points of Calvinism (TULIP)
    1. That fallen man is totally unable to seek God, understand spiritual things, or trust fully in Christ. (Total Spiritual Inability)
    2. That God's electing purpose was not conditioned by anything in man (Unconditional Election)
    3. That Christ's atoning death was sufficient to save all men, but Christ died only for the elect (Limited Atonement)
    4. That the gift of faith, given by God's Holy Spirit, cannot be resisted by the elect (Irresistible Grace)
    5. That those who are regenerated and justified will persevere in the faith (Perseverance of the Saints)

    The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

    1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

    5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate:

    If we had been chosen individually before creation, they we would always have been a people chosen by God. We would never have existed as "not a people." However 1 Peter 2:10 says we were once "not a people." Therefore the election of Ephesians 1:4 was corporate, not individual. It is a lock.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why our individual election for salvation occurs during out lifetime:

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen through or on the basis of faith in the truth. For us to have faith, we must be alive, and having heard and understood the gospel, we must have put our full faith, love and devotion in Christ. Since our individual election for salvation occurs during our lifetime, then before that we were "not a people" and had "not obtained mercy." Thus this view is consistent with all scripture.
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Is the following your own creation, Van? So far, you have refused to acknowledge from where you have copied and pasted. Are you plagiarizing or is this your original thought?

     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    James 2:5 (NASB)
    Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor to the world, rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

    If the above does not read precisely as your NASB95 copy reads, the reason is it has been scrubbed. The italic addition has been removed, and elsewhere the more literal footnoted rendering inserted.

    God choosing the "poor to the world" refers to the corrupt value system of fallen mankind. The the fallen see those chosen as poor, but God sees them as rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. Clearly another verse teaching conditional election based on God crediting our faith as righteousness.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Gee I am so sorry Sir, I thought I posted the ELECT biblical doctrine came from scripture. I even though I had told you where to look. My bad.

    Did I create corporate election? Nope. Conditional individual election? Nope, Romans 4? Nope Mark 1:15? Nope 1 Peter 1:3-5? Nope

    Now do you have the ability to actually discuss the biblical doctrine of election or are you just tying to deflect discussion away from scripture?
     
    #6 Van, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    How does Peter start out his letter?

    1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

    Now, look at chapter 2.

    1 Peter 2:1-12 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

    Van, is Peter speaking corporately when he says "if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good?" In order for your claim to have any legitimacy, you must state that he is making a corporate statement. Otherwise, Peter would be inconsistent.

    Van, Peter is speaking to each reader in the first person when he says "you."
    But, you are attempting to make the word "you" into the third person. I therefore disagree with your assertion.
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, you are not sorry. You are deliberately being coy and thus proving your deception.

    Van, where is your acroynm found in scripture. Please show us from which passage you copied and pasted.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    How does Peter start the letter? He addressed it to those who had been "individually elected based on God crediting their faith as righteousness." Please do not waste another entire thread addressing non-ELECT doctrine. Does anyone believe Calvinists cannot grasp the double election doctrine, elected corporately before creation and then elected individually during our lifetime. Watch and see if the elect doctrine or non-elect doctrine is being addressed. If non-elect, then know this, the posts are just smokescreed to hide the truth.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Post #8 = smokescreed and should be deleted
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    1) Depraved from conception - made sinners (Romans 5:19)

    2) Separated from God - our state separated from God because we came forth in iniquity (Psalms 51:5)

    3) Corrupt flesh - fleshly desires are corrupt (2 Peter 2:10)

    4) Corrupt human spirit - we are predisposed to sin and have a corrupt viewpoint (Ephesians 4:22)

    5) God understands the heart - (1 Chronicles 28:9)

    6) God accepts our faith - ( Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24)

    7) God chooses those who love and trust in His Son - (James 2:5)
     
    #11 Van, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It seems you did not comprehend what I said.
    However, you now seem to be denying corporate election, which I take as a good thing.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another smokescreed post. That is two.
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your assertion does not make you correct. So far you keep avoiding. That is entirely on you.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Smokescreed post #3.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    1) What is the basis for the claim Christ's propitiation is sufficient to save all men? Christ laid down His life as a "ransom" for all. (1 Timothy 2:6) Not all kinds of people, or all the elect, but all people. Why claim "all people" is the meaning? Because 2 Peter 2:1 teaches Christ "bought" people heading for swift destruction. Thus non-elect.

    2) How is "reconciliation" (salvation) received? 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 indicates we receive the reconciliation when we are "in Him." But what is the basis for God putting us "in Him." 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen for salvation through "sanctification by the Spirit" ( the Spirit setting us apart in Christ) on the basis of "faith in the truth." Thus when God credits our faith as righteousness, (Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-24) He transfers us into the kingdom of His Beloved Son. (Colossians 1:13).

    3) What scripture indicates we were "baptized into Christ?" 1 Corinthians 12:13 This is the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and the means by which we were baptized into Christ. Romans 6:3

    4) Being transferred into Christ puts us "together with Christ" and thus results in life (Ephesians 2:5).
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sigh...
    This is all predicated on your false claim that humans generate their own faith, which God then judges and credits as either righteous or unrighteous.

    Three things:
    1) God gives the gift of faith to His elect, not to people who are dead in their trespasses and sins. (Ephesians 2:1-9)
    2) All human righteousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore God will never count a person's human efforts to have faith as being righteous.
    3) Your proposal is legalistic and based on human works, not grace. Therefore you negate salvation by grace and promote salvation by works. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to oppose the doctrine of legalism, which you are teaching.

    Van, your teaching is wrong.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Everytime we see "his faith" or "your faith" in scripture Calvinism says "taint so" it really means "his God instilled via irresistible grace faith." Rewriting scripture after scripture to make it of no effect is not wise. His faith means his faith.
    2) Ephesians 2:1-9 says God gracious gift is salvation, and that salvation is gifted based on God crediting our faith as righteousness. Thus we see "through faith." Since the gift is obtained through faith we had faith before we received the gift of salvation.
    3) God does credit human faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-24.
    4) The biblical doctrine of election is based on scripture, and not on man-made doctrine.
     
  19. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    That's pretty cool!
    I would like to suggest that somewhere in there you include the actual facts of the gospel: including Jesus being born of man, dying on the cross, being raised from the dead, etc.
     
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    If the dispute is about Free-'will' or Free-Grace, the 'power' of the one, and the Efficacy of the other, in a sinner’s Regeneration and Conversion;

    ....turn to your Bible, and from thence it will appear, that this work is not by the might, or power of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord of hosts;

    ....that men are born again, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, his Spirit and grace;

    ....that it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy;

    ...that the work of faith is a work of power, of the operation of God, and is carried on by it, and is even according to the exceeding greatness of his power, who works in man both to will and to do of his own good pleasure...

    (Zech. 4:6; John 1:13; 3:5; Rom. 9:15, 16; Col. 2:12; 2 Thess. 1:11; Eph. 1:10; Phil. 2:13).
     
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