Passages that deal with salvation ignored!

If one does not have godly sorrow then he will not repent. John the baptist showed the multitudes that fruit of repentance is part of true repenting, if there is no fruit then there is no true repentance. Of course it makes no sense to me for someone to repent of anything unless they understood their state which would declare to them that they need to repent. That is why it is impossible to repent without first having a faith that has an understanding of our condition before God.

The only time I see repentance preceeding believing in Christ was when John and Jesus spoke to the Jews who needed to repent from their ways against God, they already believed in God, but needed to repent for the things they had done and believe in the Messiah.

Today men are not in a situation like the Jews, we come to faith a belief in God first by hearing the word, in which we understand our state before God. In a good heart (which some say is impossible) the seed (the word of God) is planted and brings forth much. Repentance is unto life, repentance is unto salvation, which tells me that it is a conditional command by God for man which LEADS to life (salvation) Faith saves and repentance saves! Never one alone by itself.

 

1 John 1:7-10

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

The blood of Christ cleanses us as we walk in the light, if we confess our sins. Is every sin confessed? Does one unconfessed sin result in us no longer walking in the light? When we do sin it is apparent that if we have knowledge of that sin then God wants us to turn from it, have a different mind set about it and He wants us to confess it to Him. I think the point is that we continue walking in the light. If we come to a point of no longer confessing our sin to God then we at some point may no longer be walking in that light.

As James points out that some sin leads to death some sin does not, what's the difference? I think this is one idea that helps us better to understand what James was speaking of.

Repentance is unto salvation, so it must be done in oder to be saved, so what do we repent of? Is every sin ever committed repented of? I think in detail this is impossible, God knows it and when one repents he is repenting of His transgrressions against God in general and turning towards Him. As we grow and are walking in the light, our sins should be more evident and should be repented of and not continued, yet if we are not aware of maybe one of those sins we are still walking in the light, God will reveal those sins that are problematic in our relationship with Him.

Since we all sin and sin everyday this will always be needed, yet habitual sinning as spoken by John in his 1st epistle is not something that is done by one born of God. 1 John 3:9 Yet stumbling through life sinning will occur and needs to be confessed and repented of. To think that we should eliminate the human resposiblity because it somehow removed God's grace is not true.

 

You would bear fruit worthy of repentance, your faith would be indicated by obedience.

Mark 2:1-5
When He had come back to Capernaum several days afterward, it was heard that He was at home.

2 And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking the word to them.

3 And they came, bringing to Him a paralytic, carried by four men.

4 Being unable to get to Him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above Him; and when they had dug an opening, they let down the pallet on which the paralytic was lying.

5 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, " Son, your sins are forgiven."
NASU

 

John 8:30-44

30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

33 They answered Him,"We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.

36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

37 Abraham's Seed and Satan's "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father."

39 They answered and said to Him,"Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

41 You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father -- God."

42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.

43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
NKJV

It seems that these men believed in Jesus yet were not saved, mny I am sure will say that these men did not have true faith and I would agree because their faith was dead. John tells us that they believe in Jesus yet their father was the devil.

So is there a difference from what many would say that belief in Christ alone saves and these men who John said that they believed in Christ?

John 12:42-46
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.

45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
NKJV

Is John saying that these men believed in Christ, yet were not saved?
Confession is unto salvation according to Romans 10:10, belief without confession is a dead faith, yet one can believ in Jesus and abide in darkness as v.46 points out. Notice that the text does not say that whoever believes in Me cannot abide in darkness, but should not abide in darkness.

Belief or faith apart from obedience cannot lead one to salvation.

Here we have an inspired Apostle declaring that these men believe in Jesus, yet were still lost. They remained in darkness because their faith alone was not able to save them.

I know there are going to be those of you who say that they did not have true saving faith alone that could save, yet they did believe in something according to John, so what did they believe about Jesus that cause John to say that they believed yet were not saved by this belief or by their faith alone?

Notice that there is not repentance in their belief, something that is as some say joined directly with belief, so it looks like someone can have a belief in Christ and not repent, making the two seperate acts. One can begin with a belief and not follow through do to issues as stated by John about those who were worried about other men.

It is amazing that the men in John 8 believed yet still saught to kill him.

how is it that many could not deny the miracles wrought by Jesus yet they did not believe in Him because of them? Here you have men believing in Him but not obeying Him, not abiding in His teaching.

 

Darron Steele Wrote:

My original post

First in my defense I would like to say that I have reread by first post and find nothing wrong with it, I did not attack anyone and have maintained a mostly respectful demeanor, the one time I got snarky I apologized and have been on my best behavior. I have not pointed at any person as an individual saying that they believe this or that, I was merely making a point to those who hold to certain ideas, this is debating you know. I am sorry that you no longer enjoy my posts, but I doubt it is because of my supposed "allegations".

I understand many of you believe a certain way about salvation, it ok if I do not see it your way. But I did not call on you personally as a target, so I am not sure where this is coming from.

It is unclear to me what you are saying, I think you misunderstood my last post and my first post, but I have addressed my first post. Now my last post must be clear to some because HP pick up on it and you did not.

My point from those scripture was that some believed, yet could not be saved because their belief did not follow with obedience, hence they believed as John states by inspiration, but were not saved, therefore they had faith but their faith alone could not saved them just as faith alone cannot save anyone.

I hope that since none of you are sitting here with me in my living room and cannot see my physical demeanor, that we would not let our words dictate our true intentions, it has been seen on this forum in times past that some of you that are of the same denomination beliefs and background, get a little snippy as well and yet many do not call on it or make mention, I would hate to think that everytime that something is not taken the right way that I will be targeted as being this or that. I am by mo means trying to make people mad, that is not why I am here. I could be doing a lot of other things but I choose to engage in conversation with all of you.

I know there is bias towards the COC, but I believe I have handled myself just fine and will continue doing so. I do believe that there are people in the NT that spoke in such ways that many here would not like as well, even Jesus spoke a certain way that many would not like.

I would apologize but I feel as if I have done nothing wrong, but if I did I certainly would.

So back to the points made in my last post. I hope we can get back to it.

Faith in and of itself does not save, even Cornelius and his house hold repented and were baptized in water. I understand that some believe because the Holy Spirit fell on them that they must have been saved, but I all ready asked a few the question about the other account in the N.T. in regards to when others received the H.S. and when they were saved.
You have those in Acts 8 who believed and were baptized, yet did not receive the H.S. until John and Peter came down and laid their hands on them. Were they saved when they believed or were they saved only after they received the H.S. which came after baptism?

Then you have those in Acts 19 who were baptized of course after Paul instructed them, they did not receive the Spirit until after they believe and were baptized as well, so when were they saved.

So if Cornelius is our example of salvation because he receive the Holy Spirit before baptism then what do we do with these other passages, actually what do you do with these passages. The question has been ignored on other posts, so hopefully we can hear what others may think here.