Passion opinion query

blackbird, the entire Body of Christ, regardless of what movies they see or don't see, should be your friends.

Brother Adam--you say opposition concerns are thoroughly "debunked" and if in your mind they are, fair enuff then, so why be bothered by "debunked" opinions?

I wonder what Jesus Himself thinks of this film? It would not be hard to find out. But I'll let those more spiritually mature discern His opinion.

 

Just curious - do you avoid Christmas concerts and Nativities for the same reason?

 

What about singing 'We Three Kings of Orient Are' during a Christmas production. Where is THAT in the Bible? No number is mentioned!

Diane

 

Some of you must live in front of your computers,my wife says i do,and i do spend some time here too.I throw in a few comments once in awhile.
Some one above on this thread said that making a negative comment about this movie without seeing it was like opposing smoking without ever smoking or drinking without drinking.Well i have seen friends die from smoking and it took me three months to recover from a headon collision caused by a drunk driver slamming into my car.I suspect some,including childern ,will have some sleepless nights as a result of this hollywood venture.
One thing this contraversy is doing its making Mel million.Many who would have never gone are not checking it out.
Those CSI TV prigrams are too bloody for me !!!!!!!!!!

 

I'll just throw my comments in...I can't decide if I'm going to see the film or not. I realize the violence surrounding Christ's death and the significance of what He bore for me. My biggest issue is whether or not the movie deals with the teachings of Christ. I understand there are flashbacks, but does it adequately explain what Christ taught or why He died. I know one movie can't do or be everything.

I understand the movie will effect many Christians deeply as they are reminded of the suffering for sin, but I wonder if this movie will draw unsaved persons closer to Christ or push them away? Guess that is left to be seen. I pray they are drawn to Christ.

Charles

 

Charles this was NEVER pruported to be more than the last 24 hours of the life of Christ.

Diane

 

True, Diane. Since you've seen the movie, does it indicate why Christ died? I'll probably see the movie next weekend, but I am curious if the reason for His death is mentioned.

Thanks!
Charles

 

Charles, in flashbacks Jesus quotes scripture (in Today's English) several times. Do remember that this is a film on the last 24 hours of Christs' life and not Genesis - Rev. tho!

It is the most powerful film I've ever seen.

Diane

 

Diane, Thanks for the comments! I'm glad the movie has made an impact in your life and many other Christians. I'll have to go see for myself.

Charles

 

Dear Roger and David,
I'm sorry you are feeling pressured. People should not be pressuring you. Nor should you theoretically pressure me. It is so easy to seem to be pressuring when enthusiastically having an opinion.

Yes, I thought the movie is well-done and useful.
But hey, my mother isn't planning on going and I still love her.
Is the movie "necessary'? No. Does it say perfectly everything that could be said? No.

But when my oldest played one of the three Wise Men in a Christmas pageant several years ago, I got a lot out of that too. Christians for almost 2000 years have reenacted the Passion, the Incarnation, the Resurrection. So I am unclear. Do you object to any representation or just this particular one? The recent Gospel of John movie has not been shown in my town, but I plan on going.

Many Christians even now use your idea of the sufficiency of Scripture alone to go way beyond what you probably intend. They don't believe in singing hymns other than possibly metrical Psalms, for the reasons you give.

Here is my humble opinion on why some of these things upset some of us. It may not apply to you AT ALL. I frankly did not come to this board to change my opinions. My opinions are great! I came to convince others about just how great they are! Then when others should listen and they don't, that's hard. Especially people that we have a long-term "relationship" with on the board. It comes down to personal interaction is what can really make us mad rather than a specific issue.
I suspect that it COULD be harder for a person who is a pastor in "real life".
The BB is not my primary influence in life. My pastor, church, husband, family, friends, etc. are. Yet I often expect others on the BB to be swayed by mere words on a computer screen in ways that I refuse to be.

Karen

 

Some people, including yours truly, have felt pressured or bullied into going to this film. To express concerns and even refuse to go, has been declared "divisive" by the Higher Ups (I use this term sarcastically, we are all equal in Christ).

So us non-Passion people must be careful to NOT pressure or mock or rage against those who decide to see this film and say they loved it.

Let's just say, "That's nice" and move on with our spiritual growth.

When Jesus was accused of having a demon, He denied it, then, as "retaliation", He healed a man born blind from birth. See Gospel of John chapters 8 and 9. What a great Saviour! JESUS the SPIRITUAL GENIUS...Let's talk about these types of things!

 

Anyone can oppose anything by standing on the outside of the house and looking in the window, but there's a slighted view from the window, there's always truths or facts hidden from view until you see and experience for yourself. Yes you would have to join a cult, or enter into witchcraft to fully see the extent of what goes on and what is myth, but you can know that witchcraft itself is dangerous and thus a need to stay away. Everyone is entitled to voice opinion knowing bits of the movie, but until you see it for yourself, you can't say for sure.

Joan

 

Karen---nobody is pressuring me to go watch---its just that it strikes me that there is a growing obsession with the Passion---to which I do not see the need to go----no, not even so that it will "remind" me of what Jesus did!!

Question: What did Jesus institute for Born-again believers to remind us of what He did?? The Ordainance of the Lord's Supper---in which Jesus said, "THIS do in remembrance of Me!"(emphasis is mine) and the Apostle Paul said, "For as oft as ye eat and drink ye do SHOW the Lord's death till He come."(emphasis mine)----I don't need a movie as a reminder----because by FAITH I can look back and see (spiritually, now) the sufferings---every last detail---by faith! By FAITH I can drink the dredges of the same "cup" the Lord Jesus drank---by faith---every last detail! By FAITH we can all participate in what the Apostle Paul described as "the fellowship of His sufferings"---to the very finest Biblical detail!!

You want to go see the movie---I can't and won't stop ya---my simple message is this----the Lord Jesus Christ has instituted something far more revealing, far more moving, far more exciting, far more touching, far more realistic than a movie---the Ordinance of the Lord's Supper!! To which when we participate by faith---it pleases God---nothing else we do or see outside of that pleases Him!! The Lord Jesus, His Father, and the Holy Spirit are deadly serious about this thing called the Lord's Supper----the movie---just a movie that can be "trumped" by the next producer with a dollar more in the budget than what Mel had! The Lord's Supper cannot be trumped! Its the only object God ordained for us to remember Him by!

Brother David

 

Amen David.

As far as emotions after viewing a picture, people were crying in 1943 when they were leaving the cinema after viewing Lassie Come Home and the Nazi soldiers shot her. Living tears were falling down their faces from a picture show. Emotion is not the answer to the death and suffering of Jesus, although it may be part of the experience. This does not justify Hollywood.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Wow blackbird, quite a presentation. Thunder from Mount Sinai, brother. I want to go to your church, dude.

If more pastors explained communion the way you just did, nobody would go to The Passion, Mel would not be able to retire comfortably, his fringe church would have to seek other avenues of financing, and, well, lots of other stuff too.

I can't wait to partake of communion now. thanks, my friend. IOU ONE.

 

I just got back from the movie. As a believer, I try to look at life through theological eyes. I try to filter everything through a biblical world view, as any thinking, committed believer would. With that said, this movie is art. And every artist has a message. Every song, sculpture, film, painting...all of it has a message from the artist. Every artist is trying to communicate something. The challenge is to discover that message and weigh it against the truth of Scripture. Why? So we can boast that we are right and they are wrong, etc, etc? NO! So we can intelligently and biblical speak to our culture. God's plan of evangelism was never a movie...it was one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread. And if we don't have our pulse on the culture, along with our heart on the Lord, and our mind in the Scripture, we will miss our opportunity to share the gospel effectively with those who need to hear.

With that said, the movie is overtly Catholic. But so is the artist, so what did you expect? Mary is so dominant and strong, and almost divine in the film. Are you really surprised? I was able to filter Mel's message through Scripture and have been able to help people understand the slant of the film. Like it or not, the film has the country talking. And I want to be able to gracefully and respectfully speak the truth with those in the culture who are asking questions about Christ.

Does it go into the reasons for the cross. No, it simply shows the reality of it. But what Catholic doesn't cling to a crucifix? My opportunity is to explain why Christ died, and point to the empty tomb.

I was moved by the movie at certain points. When I saw Christ spat upon, and how disgusting that was, those passages came to life for me. And when I saw Peter lock eyes with Christ after denying Him, I remembered how many times I have played the part of Peter in my life. And when He said from the cross, "It is accomplished", I worshiped in my heart for the victory that is in Jesus.

Did I swallow the message hook, line and sinker? No. Will you? No. Will someone? Possibly. But as our culture swims through these "controversial" waters, we must be ready to play lifeguard and use the gospel to rescue the perishing. Regardless of the movie.

 

amen_corner: I appreciate your independent thinking, your theological lens, your honest admission of certain faults in this film, your mentioning the "almost divine" stature of Mary (in your opinion) in this film...

...and your sincere desire to lead others to Christ. Keep up the good work, and keep holding everything to Biblical standards.

good post.

 

Regardless of the topic or situation no one should ever feel forced into any decision by church leadership EVER, it's just wrong.

Joan

 

THE POWER IS IN THE SCRIPTURES

LUKE 16:19-31
Lu 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: Lu 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, Lu 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. Lu 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Lu 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Lu 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. Lu 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Lu 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: Lu 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Lu 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. Lu 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. Lu 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Read verse 31 again

Before I start I have to apologize for not bringing this sermon sooner. But like many my flesh was sucking me into the big fairy tale like many other Christians.

I was asked last Sunday if I was going to see the movie passion. My reply was I am not sure about 4 weeks ago I would have said yes. But as time went on alarms kept going off and eventually I felt something was wrong.

I knew by the grieving of the sprit going on inside me that it was my flesh desiring to see the movie. So I started to pray and think about it more but not enough until last Sunday.

Then the lord laid many scriptures upon me and a letter from and ex priest Brother Richard Bennet sent me.

After much prayer and much study I knew totally that this movie was not for me or any other true born again Christian to see. However like with everything else I will not tell you but hopefully convict you from scripture to the dangers of this film.

So this is my sermon or teaching for today THE POWER IS IN THE SCRIPTURES

This movie I totally believe will do more harm then good to the will of the father or Christianity and the answer is right in Luke 16:31

the answer is we have the scriptures, the Holy Bible , The power of the Holy Sprit working in us and the world. We have the history records, we have the Son of God risen from the dead yet we still do not believe

We still desire the image of and Idol in our head as the Israelite did. READ VERSE 31 AGAIN ABOVE

They had the prophets,moses, witnessed the miracles and plagues brought about in Egypt. We have the Bible , The Holy Sprit, The fruit of a new life in Christ , The history of one rose from the dead yet Abraham tells them neither will they be persuaded by one raised from the dead and we will not be persuaded by a gory bloody film

We have Lazarus who Christ rose from the dead, We have Christ himself who rose from the dead and now like before we want and image to have in our head to believe in

We still want and idol carved in our minds, We still want a God made in our image or our fashion to believe in and picture in our mind.

this movie may save some souls but will siere the mind of much more It will deceive many into and image of God that stops at his death and never shows his true power, his unpicturable glory, his total greatness, and his awesome undescribable love

you see you cannot make and image, statue, picture, still or motion that can entrap the true qualities and likeness of God, they will always fall way short making us and image of a lessor God or human like God.

HE CREATED US WE CANNOT CREATE HIM

I am going to share some scriptures often overlooked but first I have a real testimony to share where this film is going.

ECUMENICALISM It says we have the same Jesus Rome portrays, It leads people back to believe we have the same Jesus as the pope and his hordes of relics

It has caused many to be swallowed up by the wolf in sheeps clothing.

Pat Robertson,Billy Gram Franklin Gram,Jack Van Impe, Dobson and many many more These poor souls have swallowed so much garbage they now consider Mell Gibson a brother in the Lord

Yet he stands true to a faith that is and abomination to the Lord , a faith that see's salvation by works, a faith that exalts Mary to and equal to Jesus who suffered just as much by offering her son ( hogwash) a faith that claims she is a co redeemer to salvation which goes against the true word of God in scripture only JESUS can save your soul and he doesn't need help from Mary. A faith that blinds millions to true salvation and the true God with all its Idols relics and images.

You cannot be a child of God and have not the love to follow him with all you are These poor souls have and image of God but they have not the real Christ.

We need to be careful and more so now then ever before I can tell you personally that images like this film portrays will keep you from feeling and knowing the real Jesus by confining him to and image in your mind that is far less then he truely is.

You see I know from experience I was raised catholic and until the Lord could clean those images from my mind I couldn't feel , discover, or experience the power and true love of Jesus because my image of him was far less them his true being power and love.

Exodus 20:4 is a commandment of love and perfect also not bondage or giving up something as many see it lets read it

Ex 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not make any graven image The definition for graven is carve make or pressing of membranes (another words a picture)
Why does he not want us to make and image? Because no matter how we imagine him no matter how powerful the picture it falls way short
I can tell you many Christians will watch this film , emotions will get a hold of them and when they stop to pray this images of Jim Cavesiel will be portrayed in there mind . Jesus will now be in a box locked by that image.

The suffering Jesus went threw will be in there mind they say it will cause them to see him and love him more but what are we told in Luke

You cannot show on film the true love from Jesus that you can get only from experiences with him and walking in obedience to his word

This film can portray the gore and wrath of man upon him but not the sin he suffered for , not the battle he fought at death, not the desire he had to for fill the will of the father in overcoming death. not the love he had to overcome hell as our lamb an offering for sin !!

What this film portrays in the last 12 hours of his life was only the beginning of what he suffered for us. He suffered much more before he rose from the dead purified by the fire.

This film stops short at showing how Jesus rose from the dead HELL pure tried in the fires to pay for our sin.

This film falls way short of the sufferings of Christ and the way of his glory yet many will watch it and implant that mark that image in there head, blocking them from the fulfillment or causing them to struggle to regain what scripture taught them and what the Holy Ghost proves to them.

Exodus is very plain, "Thou shall not make any graven image", very simple but much overlooked today. Notice verse 5. Let's turn there and read it.


Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Why do you think the Lord went on with this part after verse 4 says do not make. If we don't make them, how can we worship them, you should wonder?
Because He loves us so dearly, He knew others would not heed to verse 4 and would make movies, pictures, and statues. So he goes further to warn us, don't be fooled my glory can not be made into an image.
Now you might say that I am not bowing down to or worshiping it's images. Verse 4 says, don't even make them!! Tell me this though, and I know from my up bringing it is only human nature.
After watching that movie in Latin, the language of the Catholic church, and being moved by it emotionally and you start to worship Jesus, which Jesus will be in your mind, the one of the scriptures or the one of the Roman Catholic church, portrayed in images that shows far less than the real one.
Pictures and images are void in our life. But over the years because of the ecumenical movement they are now being accepted.
Baptist churches never had images of Christ. Now we see them with stained glass windows in their churches of Him. The Pentecostal would not allow images. Now watch TV. They all portray images of Christ.
Older movies that were made according to scripture never portrayed the image of God, to put a face on Him. Now we accept it, even for our children
Want your children to learn and feel the love of Christ, read them the word, don't give them a modern movie. Give them time and love in the King James Bible. Let them and yourself experience the true Jesus from His word, not an image that is far less than He.
Society is being fooled with movies and things like Passion. They believe it to be a quick fix but quick fixes don't last. Quick fixes break again. Quick fixes are thrown away and replaced. We have to ask, after people that are not born again have this image of God, and it only fills that hole as a quick fix, what will they use to fix the hole as it returns?
This movement has gone so far that many today see nothing wrong with images and are buying up the picture books further implanting an image of God in their mind. Postcards, nails that represent the ones used in the Cross, pennants, screen savers, mouse pads, and I am sure there is much more mass merchandising to come over the crucifixion of Christ. It almost reminds me of the merchants in the temple, and the wrath of Jesus was let loose. What will happen now, we should wonder.
I said that I was going to share scripture with you also to prove my point. It will also prove that an image isn't only a statue or carving as many would teach, but a picture also.
Ezekiel 8
Eze
8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I
sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell
there upon me.
Eze
8:2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins
even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as
the color of amber.
Eze
8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit
lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to
Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of
the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
Eze
8:4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in
the plain.
Eze
8:5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I
lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar
this image of jealousy in the entry.
Eze
8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great
abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my
sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
Eze
8:7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
Eze
8:8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall,
behold a door.
Eze
8:9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
Eze
8:10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and
all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about.

Abominations portrayed upon the wall. Pictures upon the wall. Notice verse 6, I should go far
from my sactuary.
I read this and it was like a brick fell upon my head. I shall go far from my sactuary.
I told you, when these false images portrayed in my youth by the catholic church came about I
could feel the presence of God lessened. I felt Him leaving my sactuary because of the
abomination of what I portrayed Him to be.
I protect myself now. I actually close my eyes at the images portrayed on the tv about Passion
and on the internet. I refuse to look at images portrayed to be Christ.
Notice also, I read verses 1-3. Let's read them again and see the image portrayed upon us by
His word. (Read)
Nothing like you see on TV. You see, just as with most people their beauty goes much deeper
than the outward appearance. God's beauty portrayed in an image could never show the beauty
on the inside we feel in coming to know Him from His word.
I pray we all repent of this sin and ask the Lord to remove these false images we have and
work not to let them in again.

Nu 33:50 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,
Nu 33:51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan
into the land of Canaan; Nu 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from
before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck
down all their high places: Nu 33:53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell
therein: for I have given you the land to possess it. Nu 33:54 And ye shall divide the land by lot
for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to
the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his
lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit. Nu 33:55 But if ye will not drive
out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let
remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land
wherein ye dwell. Nu 33:56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought
to do unto them.
Notice pictures in verse 52......., but also notice God warns them to drive them and their idols out or
they will be pricks to their eyes and thorns in their sides.
We too must drive those false images and idols from our eyes or they will hinder and be thorns in our
sides.
We too must take verse 56 as a warning to a relationship if we want Him to remain close.
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, that come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are
ravening wolves.
Don't be fooled by false images, idols that inwardly that will lead to failure and destruction. Don't be
fooled by images of the Lamb which are not the true Lamb but a wolf in disguise that will cause the real
Lamb to distance himself from you.

I Timothy 4
1ti
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1ti
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

I Timothy 4 tells us, in the later days some shall depart from the faith, seducing the spirit,
having their consciencousness seared with a hot iron
I hope that I am wrong, but I truelly feel and see from scripture those that are departing from
the faith and fear that this film will sear the conscienceness of many.
I haven't seen the movie, and will not see the movie. Even though many say I can learn about
and preach about it better by seeing it. I don't have to commit adultery to know it is wrong yet I
preach against it !!
I have heard enough on the news and from Mel Gibson to know that it falls way short of who
our God is and also that he has portrayed his Jesus who is an abomination to the real Jesus.
I know, from what I have learned, it is a film made to the desires of the flesh. It only shows
the death, the last 12 hours, the blood and gore that modern society seeks.
It falls short of leading people to salvation, never causing them to repent for their sins but to
feel sorrow for what happened.
It portrays the veneration of relics and idols. Examples are the Veronica woman who
supposedly wiped Jesus's face with her Vail while he was carrying His cross. It now is suppose to
contain a true image of Jesus's face and is believed to heal the sick. It is being held by the Roman
Catholic church.
It is a film that has subtracted and added to the word of God in ways that are hidden to most
and revealed to me from reading and listening to interviews of Mel Gibson about the film.
The Son of God will not be found in the movie theater, the Son of God will only be found
through His word, true repentance, and a willingness to change your heart and follow Jesus.
Mt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Mt
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and
wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mt 24:25 Behold, I
have told you before. Mt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert;
go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Mt 24:27 For as the lightning
cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man
be.
The rich man and his family had Moses and the prophets. We have history, the scriptures,
and the Son of God to believe. If we see Him not through that an idolic image made by an
unsaved man will not bring the lost truly home. It might bring some to ask questions but their
mind will be seared by the hot iron and the lesser image will always try to seek it's way through.
Let's pray that we fall not into these traps.
Let's call upon the Lord to heal our transgressions and bring us closer to Him. Let's realize
just because the scholars and Doctors say that the film is good, that God's word said do not make
it and warns us not to let it prick our eyes.
We need to realize I Corinthians 13:10 more whole-heartedly. For when that which is perfect
is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with.
We have the perfect word of God now as promised in scripture and preserved for all
generations. We don't need idols or images from the unsaved to try and make us believe or to
strengthen our faith

FAITH COMETH BY HEREING AND HEREING BY THE WORD OF GOD. AMEN
!!!!