1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Paul’s very clear warning about today’s #1 disastrous doctrine

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    “Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),
    for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them.
    Don’t even associate with such people.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, TLB)

    (*) the sins which are listed immediately before in Ephesians 5:3-5.

    Other similar warnings are in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Col. 3:5, Rev. 21:8)

    “Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),
    for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.
    Don’t participate in the things these people do.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NLT)

    “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things(*)
    the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
    Therefore do not be partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NKJV)

    “Let no one delude and deceive you with empty excuses and groundless
    arguments [for these sins(*)], for through these things(*)
    the wrath of God comes upon the sons of rebellion and disobedience.
    So do not associate or be sharers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, AMP)

    Okay, so the question must be: In what form will the wrath of God come upon
    these believers who insist on being habitually-disobedient sinners?

    “Easy-grace” proponents have told me the NT warnings are about rewards!
    And each time, I’ve had a difficult time to stop laughing and getting up off the floor.

    We need to consider WHY so many of our churches are NOT preaching against this!

    We have several possible reasons for our North American churches preaching
    the false doctrine of easy-believism and easy-grace without accountability,
    which has deceived many believers into a false sense of security.

    • Leadership was deceived by Satan into believing this false doctrine
    • Leadership desires the praise of people more than the praise of God
    • This doctrine is popular and non-threatening for those who love their sins
    • This doctrine will not cause believers to leave the church
    • This doctrine will ensure that the tithes keep rolling in

    So, pick your poison … and more than one may be chosen for your church.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    35,666
    Likes Received:
    960
    Faith:
    Baptist
    NO verses/passages in NT teach we can lose eternal life, all of yours warn against eiher losing rewards, or those who just profess being saved!
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,082
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Grace is unmerited favor. As Grace is given completely apart from any merit, it can be neither "easy" nor "hard." That is because it has nothing to do with our merit. It has to do with God's mercy.

    So, what is "hard believism?" Belief, faith, is a gift from God, given apart from all human merit and is the result of regeneration, not the self-centered cause of it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    35,666
    Likes Received:
    960
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those who see salvation as Samuel does, seem to hold l to God forgiving all past sins, but puts us on probation until death, to see if merit keeping saved!
     
  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I find "easy believism" is taught exclusively by free-will advocates.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    35,666
    Likes Received:
    960
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And even many of them would be taken back by loose living, as some of the strictist christians are those in free will grace! afraid might not measure up to keep it....
     
  8. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The easy grace, or easy believism, doctrine just refers to the idea that
    born-again believers can live a sinning lifestyle and still go to heaven.
    Most people who hold to this fallacy say the many warnings are about losing rewards.

    I can give my son a new car, even though he certainly doesn't deserve it.
    If he misuses the car, I reserve the right to take it back from him.

    I'm just now coining a new phrase: "grace reversed". But, it's not copyrighted yet.

    How about reconciling the so-called OSAS NT verses with the anti-OSAS NT verses?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    35,666
    Likes Received:
    960
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have met few free willwers who held to sinning away,, as they were afraid to lose salvation, so tend to go overboard in legalsim!
     
    #9 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I went to a free-will Baptist Church where the pastor said that people just need to say the sinners prayer (as though it were a magic incantation). He believed that even if people's lives didn't change, they were still saved by virtue of the prayer. His church was filled with people living in addiction and unable to recover. He just enabled them by patting them on the back and telling them to try live a good life, but God forgives you. His daughter was a cocaine addict and lead worship for the church.
    Needless to say, I no longer attend the church.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    35,666
    Likes Received:
    960
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have had the other extreme, as been around those holding to non cal view who were scared could lose it if not living right enough!
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,082
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Faith:
    Baptist
    faith gift.jpg
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes, you were in quite the AOG assembly.
    The middle ground is required ... and Jesus promises the way is easy (but narrow, lol).
    For the born-again believer, IMO, all that's necessary is the correct and
    acceptable heart attitude toward God, which entails several things.
     
  14. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So, that's how we reconcile the so-called opposing verses?

    The sinner can accept God's gift of faith, but then what he does with it is up to him.
    I've never known a sinner who was a robot with no free will to do what he pleases.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    15,005
    Likes Received:
    1,354
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “Easy believism” is the faith of those who work towards what they can lose as opposed to those who cling with all of their being to what they cannot. The hardest thing for men is to die to themselves so that they can live in Christ. This involves transformation and change. It involves a new birth, a new creation. It is not easy because it involves a death and life that cannot be undone. On the other hand, "easy believism" is trading salvation for a faith you can set aside at will.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I maintain that a goodly percentage of those who reside in today's Laodicean churches ...
    rest easily in the "easy-grace", "easy-believism", OSAS doctrine,
    which has been foisted upon them by Satan and the church.

    Jesus preached a totally different gospel of faith,
    which produced "faithful" obedience, endurance to the end, etc.


    10 NT verses alone teach us ...
    If the believer does not endure in his faith (i.e. remain "faithful")
    until the end of his life, his salvation will have been forfeited.

    It behooves everyone to determine just what being "faithful" really means!
    Would being faithful to Jesus' commandments be part of it? Hmmmm

    Coming up shortly, all of this faithfulness will be tested big-time:
    1) enduring through the great tribulation of the antichrist
    2) enduring while refusing to take the mark of the beast

    So, enjoy ... and remain faithful whilst thou endureth.
     
    #16 Samuels, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  17. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    15,005
    Likes Received:
    1,354
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Exactly! Jesus preached a faith that endures (i.e., one that is eternal). You are confusing those who are saved with everyone who says they are, and misrepresenting obedience to mean human perfection. Which is an error understandable in today's culture where everything seems centered on us and our desires.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    35,666
    Likes Received:
    960
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He seems to be teaching that God forgives us in full for all sinning done until saved, and then puts us on probaption, to make that we got sinless enough to warrent keeping saved...
     
  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    No. Semi-pelagianism is not required. In fact, Semi-pelagianism is irrational thinking.
     
  20. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Okay, you believe in the endurance condition.
    But, do you really believe obedience is also a necessary condition?
     
Loading...