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Paul to the Greeks.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Jacob59, Feb 22, 2021.

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  1. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    something of interest in that verse is the word 'must' not 'can' is used.

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Acts 4:12 - Bible Gateway

    If the word 'can' had been used, that would imply some kind of choice.
    Because of God electing us, we must be saved.
    Christ must save His people, Christ must lose nothing of all that God has given Him, that is God's will.

    John 6:38-40
    New King James Version


    38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
    39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
    40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    Luke 15:4
    “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?

    Christ acknowledges His lost sheep, they belong to Him, yet dont know it until He rescues them.
     
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  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    They are the very same Gospel with no distinction.
    I see that while the Jews need less information to establish who Christ is, I also hold that all of that information is just as vital to both Jews and Gentiles in knowing who He is.
    And yet, Peter, Paul and John fill us in, as believers, on all these details later on in their many letters given to us through Jesus Christ.

    Also, I notice that, regardless of how he preached at Mars Hill, Paul did not leave out the name of Jesus when he preached to both Jews and Gentiles at Antioch of Psydia ( Acts of the Apostles 13:14-49 ), but rather gave all who were listening the very same information...
    Christ and Him crucified.

    I also see that the Gentiles who were ordained to eternal life in Acts of the Apostles 13:48, believed the preaching of Jesus Christ.
    No one else did.

    Why?
    Because they were ordained to eternal life.:)
     
    #22 Dave G, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    Again, I agree ( emphasis in bold text mine ).

    We as men would come to God IF we might feel after Him.
    To me, that is not in question.

    The question is, "why don't we?"
     
    #23 Dave G, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully, I disagree.

    In the light of Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 and many others, both Jews and Gentiles would come to God if they might feel after Him...
    But we don't and won't.

    To me, simply pointing out that "might feel" disallows any kind of hard-heartedness, spiritually, does not take into account that God does indeed extend His hand to humanity through His goodness ( Romans 2:4 );
    A hand that is refused and ignored ( and even bitten ) by many of us because that extended hand also includes the condition that we repent of our sins.

    As for "incapacitated nonsentient thinking", I believe you misunderstand what is being stated by many "Calvinistic" preachers and teachers...
    No one is actually incapacitated or non-sentient.
    All men are perfectly capable of regarding / perceiving the words of the Gospel and of God...
    The problem is not one of literal inability, but one of spiritual inability by way of a willful rejection of them.

    See 1 Corinthians 1:18-31.

    The preaching of the cross is, to them that perish, foolishness...
    But to us which are saved, it is the power of God.

    As for predetermined election, that is something that the Bible teaches and does so in no uncertain terms.
    All one has to do is to actually believe the words of Ephesians 1:4-11, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, John 6:37-65, John 8:43-47 and many others, and it should become obvious.
    Election is both corporate and individual, and is easily found in the words, "For whom he did foreknow...", along with the words, " vessels of wrath" and "vessels of mercy".
    Finally, this comes to mind:

    " So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." ( Romans 9:16 ).

    What is the "not of him" speaking of?
    The promise spoken of in Romans 9:6-13...that "in Isaac" shall the seed be called ( summoned ),
    as well as:

    " for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;" ( Romans 9:11 ).



    Good evening to you, sir.
     
    #24 Dave G, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  5. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Faith in God is not imaginary speculation being preached from the pulpit, and parroted by gullible people.

    According to the Bible, faith is nothing more than holding to righteousness through Christ and being resurrected.
     
  6. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Feeling after God is the question for Gentiles, according to Acts 17. Why do you try to change it? (Hint: you spoke the self centered phrase "To me.")
     
  7. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    How does preaching of the cross materially affect you?
     
  8. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Why didn't Paul speak the ONLY name to the Atenian Greeks?

    (PS. There is an answer.)
     
  9. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I don't.
    I simply believe God's words about man's spiritual condition before Him.
    It's the power of God to me.
    To others it is not.
    Because the Bible tells us that we already know who Jesus Christ is ( Romans 1:18-20 ).

    Of course, Paul later spoke it to those who "cleaved" ( stuck to ) him ( Acts of the Apostles 17:34 ), because the Lord gave to him the care of the churches ( those who have believed on Christ, see 2 Corinthians 11:28 ).
     
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you could give an example or two of “imaginary speculation.... parroted by gullible people”?

    Please show me where in the Bible faith is said to be “nothing more than holding to righteousness through Christ and being resurrected”?

    Maybe you could explain what “holding to righteousness through Christ” looks like?

    I don’t see how faith means “being resurrected” Being resurrected (in Christ) is an act of God.

    I see faith as trusting in the truth of God’s revelation; specifically as it pertains to the person and work of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord as revealed in scripture.

    peace to you
     
  11. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Did the Bible say the Atenian Greeks "already knew Jesus?" Yes? No?
     
  12. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Yes, thereby it appears crucial to expect others to say anything about Jesus to be worded "just right." But, such froward people are condemned by God.
     
  13. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Yes, it is apparent "To Me" frames these comments.

    I do have wonderful Blessings, not from default talk, but of substance given by The Father through Christ.
     
  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Again, the Bible says that all men know who the members of the Godhead are...
    Father, Son and Holy Spirit ( Romans 1:18-20 ).

    That does not mean that we all know Him personally.
    Respectfully, "to me" is a subjective term that I use, because I recognize that not everyone agrees with my observations of the Scriptures.:)

    Amen, sir.
    Each and every word is a blessing to me ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ).
     
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    One good news? luke 9.6 was only good news to Jews .
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Could a person be saved today by preaching the gospel they were preaching in luke 9.6 ?
     
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What is the Gospel?
     
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which is ?
     
  19. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    It is so true all people know something about a moral dimension, but so false they know what it is. That is the whole point of Sinful nature, a deluded perception blocking Truth.

    Tell me how "each word" in Isaiah blesses you. Do you understand each word? I doubt it.
     
  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Sin nature. Which verse?
     
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