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Penance at Liberty University?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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  2. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    If that is how you interpret the system, you have a wrong interpretation. I know of no person who actually has attended Liberty who believes the reprimand system is a form of penance; I never saw it as such.

    BTW, I went to Liberty as an undergraduate and graduate and never received a reprimand. It is not hard to obey the rules.
     
    #2 Ruiz, Jun 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2010
  3. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member

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    As an alumnus of the institution, this is a ridiculous example. If you think this is penance, you don't understand the Catholic doctrine of penance.

    Listen, Liberty isn't for everyone. Frankly, it was barely for me...but I am a better person because of my time there.

    You don't like how they go about their systems, fine, but don't libel the place. These systems are decent and help students (many of who wouldn't have a Christian background) grow and develop.

    I really hope that because of the Caner business this doesn't turn into a free-for-all against Liberty. It is a very good school, an excellent institution for growing ministers and missionaries, and it continues to develop world class leaders for our churches and societies.

    btw, the link didn't work for me.
     
    #3 preachinjesus, Jun 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2010
  4. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    My opinion is that your post makes no sense. Every University, every college, has a system of penalties for misbehavior/poor grades (etc). I believe this is an example of what I have said we should avoid doing. Liberty University is a fine institution and the failure of one man cannot be used to destroy the university.
     
  5. Siberian

    Siberian New Member

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  6. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    No. I just have not ever seen a system where students were fined for things that are behavioral. What I have usually seen is fines for parking infraction but for behavioral infractions there is a dean or administrator who takes care of such things.

    The system reminds me of confession and penance for sin in the RCC.
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Your post is very insightful. There is nothing wrong with Liberty University, and have known many fine people graduate from the institution. I did think Jerry Falwell was too much into politics at times, but was a fine pastor. He accomplished many things. How many people have founded a university? There is no telling how many future pastors and Christian leaders are in the field now because of his efforts.

    Every University, like a local church, has the right to set and enforce their rules as they see fit. If someone does not like it, they can go somewhere else.

    Some people on this board have a single minded agenda, and use any subject that comes up to further it.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    Penalty for sin.
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    All have the right to be heretics. However God reserves the right to judge. I would think that if one fears God then he would not be so quick to violate biblical practices. Isn't it strange how far people can go from biblical discipline found in Mt. 18 and feel good about it by being like the world in their approach?
     
  11. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member

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  13. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Church discipline (and this is not a local church we are talking about) is a three step process.
    1. A brother goes to the offender and asks him to repent
    2. A brother takes someone with him and asks the offender to repent.
    3. The church takes up the matter, and if no repentence, the person is disfellowshipped.

    The whole goal of this is repentence and restoration, not banishment, and not being punitive. So how does what Liberty University did not follow this model?
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    Money is involved at LU whereas I am unable to see that way of dealing with offenses and sin in scripture except when someone has lost something of value such as in Leviticus. That is what a court is for.

    The point of a penalty should be to bring a person to restoration and that is taught in Mt. What is taught in Mt. was before churches while the author and perfecter of our faith was on this earth. If we are to focus on Jesus should we not do as He commanded?

    Should we not always follow the biblical mandate rather than the world's ways? I have been in education for several years and have not ever seen that way of dealing with discipline problems in the world nor in any church.

    For example many books and articles I have read over the years declare that 25% of the pastors in churches today have faced a forced termination. How many were dealt with biblically? How many more pastors have resigned and the existing problems were dealt with according to scripture first? Very few.
     
  15. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    How many Hail Mary's and Our Father's did you pray? How much money did you give in indulgences for your sins?
     
  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Of course money is involved. We are talking about someone doing a job. When one does a job, one gets paid. Pastors of local churches get paid.

    I have been at this church for 33 years, and am familiar with other churches in the area, and cannot recall a forced termination. The mindset of our deacons and congregation is to uplift the pastor, not tear him down. There is one pastor in the area that finally resigned because of arguing between him and the deacons, and between the deacons themselves. In a case like that, it was up to the congregation to exercise their authority, and rid themselves of deacons that are on a power trip or do nothing but cause problems. This would not be tolerated at our church. The way you talk, this is a common problem. I can assure you if we ever had a pastor involved in some kind of blatant sin, we would follow the model in Matthew.

    I am not so sure that you can make a leap from local church affairs to a Christian University. I guess what I am not understanding is, what exactly is it that Liberty University did in handling this that was at variance from the model, or from other Scripture?
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member

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    As a former Catholic, when I was a boy the usual penance (after making what is called "an Act of Contrition" - a memorized prayer of contrition) was something like 10 Hail Mary's and 10 Our Father's. To be said in the church right after your confession.

    I would go to confession with several of my cousins (we all lived in the same apartment building). Once one of my cousins came out and said he had to say the Rosary (takes at least a half hour).

    He finally told us what he had done. He told the priest he had been keeping some of the money he was given for the collection plate.

    BTW, indulgences as a result of a "donation" are very rare in modern times, but they can be made.

    Indulgences are now mostly the result of a good work like making a Novena (google it).

    But then again my Catholic days go back to pre-Vatican II.


    HankD
     
    #17 HankD, Jun 30, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2010
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    From LU's website http://web.archive.org/web/20070510172229/www.liberty.edu/studentaffairs/index.cfm?pid=1378

    4 Reprimands + $10 Fine ​

    • Allowing unauthorized overnight visitor in residence room
    • Absence from required meeting
    • Disturbance/non-participation during Convocation
    • Dress/hair code violation: male or female
    • Failure to respond to an official call slip (for Student Affairs use only)
    • Horseplay (plus financial restitution)
    • Improper personal contact (anything beyond hand-holding)
    • Improper sign out
    • Missing Convocation
    • Music code violation
    • Outside residence hall after curfew
    • Residence hall disturbance/noise violation
    • Unauthorized borrowing (plus financial restitution)
    Money means nothing to the rich but a lot to someone who has none.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Then I suppose they should behave themselves.
     
  20. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I think you're completely missing the point. Sure, money is involved in order to give it a bit of a sting, but the reprimands are the real penalty. I'm not exactly sure how their system works, but I doubt you can get unlimited reprimands without finding yourself dismissed from Liberty.

    --

    That being said, I find their list of "offenses" absolutely ludicrous and foolish.

    Did they really issue reprimands to students who went to see "Passion of the Christ" (an R-rated movie)?

    Do they really issue reprimands to those who "associate" with those consuming alcohol? So you can't associate with lost people who might order a drink at dinner?

    You can't sign a petition or participate in a demonstration not approved by Liberty University? (Not much "liberty" at Liberty...)

    Frankly, Jesus couldn't be a student in good standing at Liberty.

    However, Liberty is free to set the rules as they think they should be, but we need to be fair as to how we represent their position.
     
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