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Pensecola Christian Collage

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by DeclareHim, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Pastor J,

    It appears from the article that only the first 38 homes were pre-selected in that way and that the aid spread from there to others who needed help. Seems like and effective way to help. Start with those whom you know need help, then help those who they know need help, etc.
     
  2. Pastor J

    Pastor J New Member

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    C4K

    You have to understand the Pensacola area to understand my point. They went to homes directly behind the school (from what I was told). This is predominantly staff housing. The good news is that yesterday they went out beyond and helped far more non-staff. I am glad they are out. I wish it were more than 10% of the students. They can have a great impact on the community and hopefully they will.
     
  3. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    I think that I hear what you’re saying but I don’t necessarily agree. I do know and understand the Pensacola area having lived there. The world, especially within Fundamentalist circles, is full of naysayers. What’s wrong with helping other Christians? This seems to be what the Bible is saying when it commands that us to “do good unto all men,especially unto them who are of the household of faith” (Galatians 6:10). It seems that the Bible does commands us to take care of believers first. I take it exactly that way. How do you read it?

    It appears that you are making an innuendo that PCC should have gone to the unbelieving community first, perhaps as a means of testimony and evangelism. Or, you may be saying their motives are selfish. On the other hand, I say the Christian testimony is most convincing when we take care of our own people. This is the testimony of Christian love that wins the lost. Our charity must begin at home. The problem is that Fundamentalists usually shoot their wounded or abandon them to die on their own.

    So, what’s your point? I see nothing wrong with PCC’s helping out, etc. IMHO, it’s a bunch of nitpicking. There are a lot of things on which I take issue with PCC but this is not anything for criticism. BTW, I have ridden out a hurricane and I have been in the decision making position for safety and weather related calls. It’s not easy. If you’re not in the driver’s seat and sharing the responsibility, don’t be a backseat driver. What are your qualifications for judging if you’ve never handled command? Lots of landlubber passengers know what ought to be and question the sea captain’s decisions for handling the ship in a storm. What about you? Ever been there, done that?

    ;)
     
  4. Pastor J

    Pastor J New Member

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    I have never been in Dr. Horton's shoes to make a decision about a hurricane. I can say this that MSNBC reported that PCC was the "ONLY" school within the 100 mile strike zone that was foolish enough to keep their students on campus. That is a great testimony!

    As far as them helping out the community. I agree that you should help out your own and other Christians first. With 1000 staff people, I would have thought they could handle the staff housing needs with staff and allow the students to help out the community. I am very pleased to hear that PCC has opened their facilities to FEMA.

    I want you to understand that I do not hate PCC. I have fully supported PCC since I graduated. I have students from my church there and I have been back on campus numerous times over the last few years. I am not being nitpicky regarding their decision to keep young people in harms way. I can understand how I was being nitpicky regarding the clean up.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    We have one student at PCC (in SPITE of my trying to straighten him out [​IMG] ) and he assured his parents that there was no problem. No danger. No food/water shortage. No flooding.

    He parroted the line given to him by the college, since the facts all showed otherwise.

    He is a hard-working young man who helped pastor roof his house (for free) and mentioned that he was busy helping others. THAT self-sacrificing spirit of service - to other christians or total strangers - is the BEST education he can get.

    While questioning the college's action before and during the storm, I commend the college for their post-hurricane spirit of service.
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    What hard evidence do you have that the students did without food/water? This line has been repeated over and over with no evidence.

    They did without running water, but were never short of bottled water. They had no hot meals from Wed morning to Thursday night, but they did have hurricane boxes for cold food.

    Criticise the decision about evacuation if you want - that is a matter of opinion for us all. But can we possibly lay off the food/water shortage story?

    Beleive me, my daughter would not parrot the party line to protect PCC.
     
  7. Pastor J

    Pastor J New Member

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    I agree with c4k. There is ample proof to the contrary regarding a lack of food. Though I disagree with their decision making process prior to the storm, I applaud their efforts during and for the most part after the storm.
     
  8. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Yes, we do have a different perspective. There is a difference between being foolish and trusting in God's care. What about missionaries who go into dangerous situations trusting God. Even though they bury wife and children on foreign fields, they trust God and are not running scared on every report of danger. There is a fine line between trusting God and being foolish. Can you draw it out for me?

    Could not our faith and trust in God be as great a testimony?

    BTW, lots of people are still hanging out around Mount St. Helen.
     
  9. Garry Geer

    Garry Geer New Member

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    You are comparing "trusting God" to "tempting God." There were many students who wanted to leave, whose parents wanted them to leave. The school either misinformed the students or threatened the students if they left any time before late Tuesday afternoon.
     
  10. Pastor J

    Pastor J New Member

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    Comparing the foolish decision of PCC to a missionary who goes to a dangerous situation is ridiculous. I know the Pastor who was killed in Iraq while trying to plant a church. He went there knowing the danger and was willing to trust God for protection. The students at PCC were not permitted to leave until Tues at 4pm and only if they lived within a 10 hour radius. They were told that the hurricane would only be a category 2 when it hit. The National Hurricane Center never gave that prediction. They were predicting that it would be at least a 3 and maybe a 4. The students were guilt tripped into believe that if they left the "safe" campus, the would cause others who were not safe to be put into a dangerous situation. If they gave the students the opportunity to leave freely on Monday like the rest of Pensacola and the students stayed, I would be fine with it, but that is not what they did.

    BTW there are lots of stupid people hanging out around Mt St. Helens. But even in that situation, they are not allowed to sit on top of the mountain and wait until it explodes on top of them.

    Quite frankly, there is no explanation for PCC's foolish behavior in putting 3500 students in the middle of a Category 3 Hurricane. You can justify it all you want. Call it trusting God all you want and it still doesn't change the fact that their decision prior to the storm was an awful one.

    I have no complaint now about how they have handled themselves during and after the storm! They deserve praise for these times.
     
  11. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    No, I am not. Carefully read my post again with comprehension. Obviously you didn't understand a thing I said.

    Furthermore, I challenge you to substantiate your assertion that PCC "either misinformed the students or threatened the students if they left any time before late Tuesday afternoon." No hearsay or secondhand rumor, please! The old saying of "Put up or shut up" works great for me.

    I await your answer. Thank you.
     
  12. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    It's your opinion, sir, and you are perfectly entitled to it as well as the armchair coaches who know better how to coach football than the coaches with the six figure incomes. What college of 3500 students do you make the decisions for? Perhaps I can call you for advice when I need to make one of these decisions. ;)

    We all make bad calls from time to time but outsiders just don't know all the factors considered in a big decision such as this. In fact, I am questioning my own foolish decision to get involved in responding to your posts. It's all inanity! What's the purpose?

    So, if you have nothing better to do with your time, post away and bash whoever made the "big bad PCC" decision. It'll accomplish zilch.

    Enjoy! [​IMG]
     
  13. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    It's your opinion, sir, and you are perfectly entitled to it as well as the armchair coaches who know better how to coach football than the coaches with the six figure incomes. What college of 3500 students do you make the decisions for? Perhaps I can call you for advice when I need to make one of these decisions. ;)

    I feel a bit of empathy with those who must make the hard decisions--been there, done that. It's easy to criticize the other guy but it's hard to make a better decision yourself.

    We all make bad calls from time to time but outsiders just don't know all the factors considered in a big decision such as this. In fact, I am questioning my own foolish decision to get involved in responding to your posts. It's all inanity! What's the purpose?

    So, if you have nothing better to do with your time, post away and bash whoever made the "big bad PCC" decision. It'll accomplish zilch. Just thank God that everything came out okay.

    Enjoy! [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    How long are you PCC naysayers going to try and keep this stuff alive?

    Say what you want - they kept my daughter safe, had food and water for her during a hurricane, fed her a hot meal a little over twelve hours later, and were back in class four days later. They also assisted the city in clean-up and provided facilities for FEMA.

    PCC has grown in my estimation in the last month. You nayayers have helped me grow in my appreciation for the school as I have carefully examined your attacks - thank you for that.

    BTW, welcome to the BB Gerry. [​IMG]
     
  15. Pastor J

    Pastor J New Member

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    C4K,

    I have only answered the personal attack by Paidagos with the facts of the situation. PCC is a wonderful school and I fully support them. But anyone with any common sense would agree that the students should have been evacuated. Every college in the Hurricane Strike Zone evacuated except PCC. This is not my opinion. This came from MSNBC. PCC was in a mandatory evacuation zone, yet they chose not to evacuate. My kids who live greater than a 10 hour drive were not allowed to leave campus prior to the hurricane. These are facts that Paidagos does not want to acknowledge. PCC's decision was a wrong one and anyone with common sense can see that the facts are clearly before them. We are not playing Monday morning quarterback. I was on the phone with the school prior to the hurricane trying to get my kids from my church released and the answer was no! These are the facts, not guess work.
     
  16. Garry Geer

    Garry Geer New Member

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    Paidagos,
    I heard this from two staff members and several students. Direct attribution.

    C4K,
    Feel free to feel however you want. I would have a hard time being grateful for someone who delibertately kept my child in harm's way. I'm glad that God had mercy on the school and their foolishness.

    Btw, C4K, my problems with the school go much much deeper then the hurricane. Their handeling of the issue is simply a sympton of a deeper problem that runs at the roots of the school as well as through a lot of fundamentalism.

    Garry
     
  17. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    You are WRONG!.

    1. Show me a single personal accusation that I leveled against you. I contradicted your posts and I said that you were wrong but I never attacked you personally. Wake up. Not everyone is going to agree with you.

    2. Show me where I deny anything of a factual nature. Opinions and judgments are not facts. That the hurricane hit Pensacola is a fact. The force of the winds and the amount of rain are quantifiable facts. But, whether they should have evacuated based on the data available to them at the time is an opinion.

    3. Show me where you have refuted my arguments or even tried to refute them. It appears that you mostly sidestepped them.

    Now, here is my opinion. You are whining. Whenever people can’t win the argument, they get whiny and begin personalizing things. There’s a word for this—it’s paranoia. This, of course, is the typical modern mindset. Furthermore, I think you are peeved with me because I have argued against you on some other threads. Don’t take it personal, Bubba. No one is trashing you personally but don’t pass judgment on other people (PCC for example) if you can’t handle a little opposition yourself. To loosely paraphrase Scripture, you will be judged in the same way you judge others. I believe plain speech and candidness is Biblical. Get over it.

    :rolleyes:
     
  18. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Hearsay nonetheless! Just who are these staff members and students? Are they as disgruntled as you? :mad: Of course, you are happy to believe it since you admittedly have a bias against the school. I'm sure that your judgment is not colored by your prejudice--is it? Sounds real fair to me. [Read with dripping sarcasm and distain.] :cool:

    I am glad that you grant C4K the privilege to "Feel free to feel however you want." [​IMG] I really didn't know that he needed your permission to feel his own emotions :mad: or think his own thoughts :rolleyes: . May I be granted the right to my own opinions? :confused: BTW, do you know the difference between feeling and thinking. I just haven't been feeling a lot of things in these posts. [​IMG]

    BTW, if you think that I'm being un-Christian by using sarcasm, note that I didn't call you a "whited wall" (i.e. a wall that men urinated against) or wish that you were "altogether cut off" (i.e. excise genitalia) as the Apostle Paul did.

    Anyway, I'm not mad at you. It's rather humorous and sad too. Have a nice life. [​IMG]
     
  19. Garry Geer

    Garry Geer New Member

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    Paidagogos,
    I don't understand the venom with which you address the issues.

    I guess one can say, factually several things.

    1. The whole area was encouraged to evacuate.

    2. There were students of the college who wanted to evacuate also but were prevented from going until it was Tuesday evening.

    3. The college felt it had authority over the students to tell them they could leave or go. (This is one of the big problems in fundamentalism, believing that a college has any spiritual authority.)

    4. Afterwards, Mullenix told the students to tell their parents that the media exagerates things.

    Those are all facts.
     
  20. Pastor J

    Pastor J New Member

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    Paidagogos,

    You have continually labeled me as a whiner, a disgruntled PCC graduate, etc. I have made no such personal attacks on you. You have stated that it is only my opinion, yet I have given you facts that you choose to ignore. Garry has given you facts that you choose to ignore. This thread was started to discuss the college. I gave a clear explanation of the fact that I support the college, I just did not support the schools decision to attack Bob Jones. I still support the college, but there decision was a foolish one based on the facts of the situation. You choose to ignore the facts and call them opinions. I will restate the facts that Garry left out

    1. Mandatory evacuation given for all residents south of I-10 (PCC is south and did not evacuate)
    2. PCC told it's students that the hurricane would be a category 2 when it hit. (National Hurricane Center was predicting a 3 or 4 prior to storm)
    3. PCC told it's students that if they left they would jeopardize the lives of other people who did not have a safe place like PCC.
    4. PCC would not allow any student to leave if they lived outside a 10 hour radius.
    5. PCC on its own website said that they had received only minor damage (outright lie, unless they were comparing themselves to the rest of the city) Fact: Major damage to AC building and Field House; 2 Dorms damaged; Numerous windows blown out.
    6. PCC brought its students back on campus after only 4 days before adaquete cleanup could be accomplished. Dorms had a significan mold smell which is dangerous to the health of the students. Administration disagreed.

    These are just some of the facts that make their decisions add up to foolishness.

    As far as you are concerned. I have no problem with any of the disagreements from any other thread (I don't remember any other threads that we disagreed in). My problem is your blind affection for PCC and their decision to purposely put 3500+ Students in the direct path of a category 3 hurricane when the facts show otherwise.
     
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