Perseverance of the Saints - denied?

Check post #78 on page 8.

 

HP: To overcome is to persevere until the end, holding fast our faith as testified by a good conscience before God and man. To overcome is to be victorious over the flesh, the devil and our lusts via the help and strength afforded to us by the Holy Spirit unto the end. It is to persevere in righteousness.

 

Amen, Brother Pilgrim -- Preach it! :thumbs:

 

Oh God, help me walk life's pathway living it!

 

Amen, May God grant as Brother Heavenly Pilgrim (HP) has
petitioned in faith.

And when he fails from time to time, Here is the remedy:

1 John 1:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
If we confesse our sinnes, hee is faithfull,
& iust to forgiue vs our sinnes, and to cleanse vs
from all vnrighteousnesse.

(Read 1 John 1:1-8 and see that this verse is only
for the saved, born-again Christian person.)

 

HP: It is true that we must confess, but it is also true that we must repent. Confession may or may not entail repentance. If it is mere acknowledgement that we have sinned, and there is no indication that we have repented and forsaken our sin, one is being presumptuous in believing he is forgiven.

If a man went out and committed adultery on his wife, and came in confessing to her that he had violated their vows, without repenting and renewing his vow to remain faithful, would he be automatically forgiven just on the account that he had confessed? I think not. Forgiveness from God entails forsaking our sins, not just admitting to them, would you not agree? Lu 13:5 “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

God is no respecter of persons. We as believers have no right to presume that God is going to give us a blanket pardon for sins that he condemns in others. Ro 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

Heavnely Pilgrim,

I have a slightly disagree with you on 'overcometh'. Yes, it is true that we can overcometh with the help from the Holy Spirit. Also, Phil 4:13 tells us, that we can do all things which through Christ strengtheth us. Wihtout have Christ, impossible for us to have victory or overcometh them. That means, 'self-center' not need Jesus Christ. With our faith in Jesus Christ, we can do all things THROUGH Christ which strengtheth us. With Holy Spirit's helping, we can overcometh.

Understand, when after we once believe in Christ with repent of sins, then we are already into the road as we are on the race. Christ says, walking on the narrow gate into the heaven is not easy - Matt. 7:13-14. Most of them easy quit and give up, will not make into eternal life.

Having overcometh them throughout our life till our death, THEN, Christ shall give us the crown of life. OR... what if suppose we do not overcometh them by the time we die or Lord comes, then He would NOT give us the crown of life. That mean, if we fail to overcometh them, then we shall not have eternal life, shall go into everlasting fire. - Rev. 2:10, 17.

Matt. 10:22; & Matt. 24:13 command us, that we ought to be endureth TILL the end, then shall be saved.

Obivously, throughout in the Bible showing us of conditional salvation, that we ought to obey God and to be endureth to have eternal life, ot if we don't, then we shall not have eternal life.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I submit what you are speaking of is "penance", as opposed to "repentance" as found in the NT and especially OT Scriptures. In fact, I can only find one example in the OT where any individual is said to have 'repented' and that is Job. Well, that is, except for God, who is said to repent, or not to repent, or have repented, or not repented about 30 times total. I've heard some sermons on David 'repenting'; just can't seem to find that in Scripture unless one 'pre-defines' repentance and then inserts David into that definition. Somehow, I didn't think that was how we are suppposed to interpret Scripture. Thought it was the other way around!

BTW, one cannot find the phrase "repent of (one's) sin(s)" in Scripture, either.

Ed

 

HP: Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
1Ki 8:47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil,
Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way,
Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
Eze 18:30 ¶ Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Mt 3:2 Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mr 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

The list goes on and on. The prophets came preaching repentance. John the Baptist came preaching repentance. In the first words recorded of our Lord, Jesus came preaching repentance Paul came preaching repentance. From Genesis to Revelations, God calls on men everywhere to repent, not do penance.

Even the Jewish scholar Alfred Edersheim clearly states in “The Life and Times of Jesus Christ the Messiah” that the Jews understood clearly that unless a sacrifice was brought forth with a repentant heart it would suffice for nothing.

There is no clearer admonition given in Scripture than the mandate to repent in order to find forgiveness.

We are not saved for the sake of our repentance, but neither will any man be saved apart from repentance. The conditions God set forth for man to comply with are always thought of in the sense of not without which, not that for the sake of. Repentance is NOT the grounds of salvation, but is most clearly a condition of salvation.

 

HP: What gives anyone the right to interpret this verse assuming presumptuously by implying that anyone other than the ‘one’ that endures in righteousness, obedience, and faith, will be the ‘one’ that is saved? Notice it does not say 'they twain,' (both those that endure and those that do not) but rather solely 'the one' who endures to the end.

 

Here: have another mixed metaphor :sleeping_2:


Grasping at the straw that broke the camel's back :tongue3:

 

HP: Sad to say, but that is an all to familiar example of ducking the question asked. Oh well, …….moving right along.

 

I just now saw this post.
It is at the top of page 10.
I have only read the posts on page 9.
Yet already you have damned me for ignoring it.
Since i've already been damned for ignoring
it, i might as well ignore it some more :love2:

Actually i whipped your pants off three pages ago.

We know "he who endures to the end, that one is saved"
Prove the contention several are using as GIVEN
but which has not even been shown from the Scripture:
"he who endures NOT to the end, that one is NOT saved".

Come on, you have a whole Bible, you can even mix and
match passages :BangHead:

 

ED,

Do you actual understand what 'endure' means?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Your question is meaningless.
If I say 'yes', then you can't debate me.
If I say 'no', then you can't explain either.
So it is best to remain silent.

 

Excuse the misspelling.

Statement corrected:

Jesus did the saving; Jesus does the preserving

 

Mat 24:13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

This does NOT say (as some seem to suppose):

He that shall NOT perserve to the end, he shall NOT be saved.
It says only:
He that shall preservere to the end, he shall be saved.

Here is preservation:

John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world,
that he gaue his only begotten Sonne:
that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

Jesus Preserves the saints, else they
wouldn't have 'everlasting life'.

Jesus saves - but Jesus saves EVERLASTING.