Pharisees- What ARE they?

Claudia, I agree. The fact that the Pharisees denied Jesus was the son of God should tell folks here that it isn't a name they should be throwing around. It's a word that makes it's appearance when folks can't scriptually back up their earthly compromising.

 

Claudia,
What was a Judaizer?
Paul denounced them in the Book of Galatians.
Their doctrine was condemned at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.
Who were they? What was their doctrine? Why was their doctrine condemned?

 

Not all P'rushim (Pharisees) denied Yeshua. Nicodemus believed in Yeshua as the Messiah of Israel.

Rabbi Sha'ul (Paul) was a P'rushim.

The Pharisees usually get a bum rap as the bad guys throughout the Renewed Covenant. Yeshua had no problem with telling people what the Pharisees did right, and the areas where they were in error.

Acts 15:1 But some men came down from Y'hudah to Antioch and began teaching the brothers, "You can't be saved unless you undergo b'rit-milah in the manner prescribed by Moshe."

A group of men that taught one had to undergo circumcision for salvation.

Acts 15:5 But some of those who had come to trust were from the party of the P'rushim; and they stood up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Torah of Moshe."

They were beliveing Pharisees, who taught without the consent or knowledge of the Jerusalem Council.

Same as above required circumcision

Acts 15:7-19 7 After lengthy debate, Kefa got up and said to them, "Brothers, you yourselves know that a good while back, God chose me from among you to be the one by whose mouth the Goyim should hear the message of the Good News and come to trust. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore them witness by giving the Ruach HaKodesh to them, just as he did to us; 9 that is, he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their heart by trust. 10 So why are you putting God to the test now by placing a yoke on the neck of the talmidim which neither our fathers nor we have had the strength to bear? 11 No, it is through the love and kindness of the Lord Yeshua that we trust and are delivered- and it's the same with them." 12 Then the whole assembly kept still as they listened to Bar-Nabba and Sha'ul tell what signs and miracles God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 Ya'akov broke the silence to reply. "Brothers," he said, "hear what I have to say. 14 Shim'on has told in detail what God did when he first began to show his concern for taking from among the Goyim a people to bear his name. 15 And the words of the Prophets are in complete harmony with this for it is written, 16 '"After this, I will return; and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David. I will rebuild its ruins, I will restore it, 17 so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, that is, all the Goyim who have been called by my name," 18 says ADONAI, who is doing these things.' All this has been known for ages. 19 "Therefore, my opinion is that we should not put obstacles in the way of the Goyim who are turning to God.

The talmidim knew that it was circumcision of the heart, not the flesh that mattered.

There are many that consider Act 15 a stopping point for non-Jewish belivers. I see it as a starting point based on the letter Ya'akov (James) drafted up for those congregations affected by that specific teaching.

Those things mentioned in the letter would allow non-Jewish believers to have table fellowship and entrance into the synagogue in order to learn Torah.

I know I'm not Claudia, so I hope you don't mind my hopping in with my two shekels.

 

in Mark 7 PRE-CROSS Christ points out that the Pharieess MAKE STUFF UP and replace the Word of God -- in fact the "commandments of God" as Christ said in Mark 7 - with the TRADITIONS of man.

In Acts 15 you see "them doing it again" in the form of Jewish Christian converts who MAKE UP the idea that Gentiles must ALSO become Jews to be saved -- something not taught in the OT Word of God OR in the NT!

They were simply "making stuff up" and replacing God's Word with what they "made up".

I have seen that tried over and over again.

In Christ,

Bob

 

It has nothing to do with making things up Bob. The Judaizers had a distinct theology, and a definite agenda.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

We note from this verse that these "believers" of a Jewish background had a two-point theology that they pushed as their agenda.
1. One must be circumcised.
2. One must keep the law of Moses.

I am not sure of the SDA's position on circumcision, nor does it matter to me. But the fact that they demand that one keeps the law of Moses in respect to salvation makes them just like the Judaizers of the time of Paul, whom the Jerusalem council condemned, as well as the Apostle Paul in the Book of Galatians.

 

Claudia, having frequent exposure to church-related groups that are like the Pharisees, I can give you a unique perspective.

I was in the Churches of Christ for two years. I was in one of the better congregations, but they are plagued by problems because they accept influence where they ought not -- from hard-liners. Non-hardline Church of Christ congregations are commonly infected by the influence they allow from hard-line Church of Christ buildings. Hard-line buildings encourage Pharasaic behavior.

Legalism is a doctrinal error where a person adds rules to be specially pleasing to God or to more strictly keep self's walk clean. However, God's rules are still generally followed.

In Pharisaic behavior, people add rules of their own, but disregard some of God's rules that do not suit them. The Pharisees strained gnats when they drank liquids to avoid ingesting anything unclean -- but they had no problem with murder when it suited their interests.

In hard-line Churches of Christ, they make sure a musical instrument never enters the sanctuary, or whatever they call it. The New Testament does not mention musical instruments, and never says a word nullifying Psalm 150. However, if they disagree with someone about religion, they have absolutely no problem slandering that person with no regard for truthfulness and will persist even when corrected. This is in complete disregard of Scripture's repeated admonitions against lying. In religious debates, they will parse words and look for ways to make the victim appear to be saying something s/he is not, and then do so. Worse, they encourage each other in such activity, considering it a skill in `furthering the truth.'

THAT is Pharisaic behavior.

 

That is a good point - adding man-made-tradition "as doctrine" while also iginoring what is actually written in scripture. That is exactly what we see them doing in Mark 7 regarding the eating of wheat.

I also think it involves removing the idea of having a living relationship with God - that you can substitue with a bunch of man-made ideas of how "you are ok with God anyway even though you are not walking with Him in real life".

They were fine with embracing their own traditions then claiming that God was stuck with them because after all they were chosen. An early form of OSAS of the 4 Point Calvinist flavor.

In Christ,

Bob

 

You sound that you are either confused or deceived or a bit of both.

Not true.
God gave Moses the Ten Commandments. It is part of the Mosaic Law, written within the Books of Moses. It cannont be eliminated from it. It is Mosaic Law whether or not you like it.

All three verses refer to the Law of Moses. You can't pick and choose; pick and choose; pick and choose. You want to obey the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath, obey the dietary laws, but throw out the laws pertaining to clothing. That is not only inconsistent, but hypocritical.

And your insistence on keeping it makes you the same thing.

You take scripture out of context. Read the verse again:

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
--The law (God's Word) is spiritual. God's Word is always spiritual, no matter what it is--law or otherwise. But what did the law do? It condemned Paul. It showed him his carnality. Why didn't you quote the whole verse--another sign of your hypocrisy!

Yes, but only because it point out our sin. It does not stand for us to keep.

Then it is hypocritical for you to try and keep it.

If it was temporary why are you trying to keep it?

It was nailed to the cross. The ark is no more. There is no more Temple. It was destroyed. The only temple that remains is our bodies. The Sabbath does not remain in our bodies and we are not commanded to keep Mosaic Law. You are hypocritial to say that we should.

It is good that you don't. You are just burying yourself.

 

You GO girl! :thumbsup:

 

In Matt 5 Christ condemns those who trash the Law of God and teach others to do likewise. Matt 5:19 even defending the "very LEAST" of these commandments.

in Matt 22 Christ quotes from the Law of God and insists that they are to be kept - starting with the Mosaic Law of Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 the "Law of Love".

In James 2 the SAME Mosaic Law is quoted and upheld for NT saints.

In Rom 7 Paul ALSO quotes from the Law of scripture - Law of Moses insisting that is still IS spiritual.

In Rom 3:31 Paul says of the Law that you deny -- "Do we then make VOID the Law of God?? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

In Heb 4 we are told "THERE REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the People of God" but your man-made traditoin says "O NO it does NOT remain"

INSTEAD of Col 2 saying "God's LAW is nailed to the cross" AS YOU DO -- the text says that our "CERTIFICATE OF DEBT" is nailed to the cross (NASB) the PAYMENT for our debt of sin - so obvious and so glaringly clear that ALL can read it!!

Your man made tradition is fully debunked in scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

 

in Mark 7 PRE-CROSS Christ points out that the Pharieess MAKE STUFF UP and replace the Word of God -- in fact the "commandments of God" as Christ said in Mark 7 - with the TRADITIONS of man.

In Acts 15 you see "them doing it again" in the form of Jewish Christian converts who MAKE UP the idea that Gentiles must ALSO become Jews to be saved -- something not taught in the OT Word of God OR in the NT!

They were simply "making stuff up" and replacing God's Word with what they "made up".

I have seen that tried over and over again.

 

Speaking of making up stuff, I get a little unhappy when I hear that the only ones going to heaven are 144,000 SDAs.......... something not taught in the OT Word of God OR in the NT!

Correction: JWs.

 

More Scripture taken out of context. When will you stop this tactic? This is the man made tradition of a cult is it not?
As far as those who "trash the law of God" are concerned, you are one of those who "trash the Word of God," in order to justify your preconceived ideas.