Police, firefighters prepare for H1N1 outbreak

[Crabtownboy]

I have answered it repeatedly.

The answer just isn't small enough to suit you.

And it also doesn't fit with the current lib paradigm of creating a crisis where one doesn't exist in order to grab power.

No you have not answer the question. Sure you plan ahead, you develop resources above and beyond that normally available, but there are times when even those are not enough.

You have danced around the question. Your suggestion of having set up additional facilities is a good idea. But it does not address the question ... what if all facilities are overrun with people needing attention?

Let's narrow it a bit. Let's say there is a huge industrial accident. The hospitals are overwhelmed with patients flooding the ER's. There are not enough doctors and nurses to treat everyone. Some must be left untreated for long lengths of time. How do you choose who are to be treated and who are not to be treated?

It is a situation somewhat like on a battlefield .... which soldier so medics treat and which ones must wait?

 

[targus]

No you have not answer the question. Sure you plan ahead, you develop resources above and beyond that normally available, but there are times when even those are not enough.

You have danced around the question. Your suggestion of having set up additional facilities is a good idea. But it does not address the question ... what if all facilities are overrun with people needing attention?

Let's narrow it a bit. Let's say there is a huge industrial accident. The hospitals are overwhelmed with patients flooding the ER's. There are not enough doctors and nurses to treat everyone. Some must be left untreated for long lengths of time. How do you choose who are to be treated and who are not to be treated?

It is a situation somewhat like on a battlefield .... which soldier so medics treat and which ones must wait?

Obviously in an emergency a triage system is used.

But this isn't an emergency situation.

Why are you changing the subject?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Obviously in an emergency a triage system is used.

But this isn't an emergency situation.

Why are you changing the subject?

Finally an answer to a question. Now how about answering the hypothetical question. How do you determine who will be admitted to the hospital and who won't in the event of a pandemic where all resources are overrun?

 

[targus]

Finally an answer to a question. Now how about answering the hypothetical question. How do you determine who will be admitted to the hospital and who won't in the event of a pandemic where all resources are overrun?

I would sort out the dire from non-life threatening.

The Florida health administration wants to make decisions based on age and mental capacity.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I would sort out the dire from non-life threatening.

The Florida health administration wants to make decisions based on age and mental capacity.

Thanks for the answer.

By the way, I am old and I see no problem in using age as a guideline. Why admit me since the majority of my productive years are behind me and my most medically expensive years are ahead of me and allow a young person to die when the majority of their productive years are ahead of them?

I am not afraid to die. I have had a great, wonderful life. I know God will take care of me after I die. Do I want to live? Sure, I love life. But realistically .......

I believe one goal of any guideline should be 'the greatest good for the greatest number of people'.

 

[targus]

Thanks for the answer.

By the way, I am old and I see no problem in using age as a guideline. Why admit me since the majority of my productive years are behind me and my most medically expensive years are ahead of me and allow a young person to die when the majority of their productive years are ahead of them?

This may be your logic - but I doubt that it is the logic of the medical system that is willing to actively kill the unborn.

There must be some other decision making process going on.

I am not afraid to die. I have had a great, wonderful life. I know God will take care of me after I die. Do I want to live? Sure, I love life. But realistically .......

I believe one goal of any guideline should be 'the greatest good for the greatest number of people'.

Nice platitude... but why not the greatest good for all people?

Why is not all life sacred and valued equally?

 

[Twizzler]

Let's say you have a 250 bed hospital, they are filled and you corridors filling up fast. There are 128 people are ill and need to be admitted and no matter where you put them you have room only for 35 additional people. All other hospitals are having the same problem. How would you determine who is to be admitted? Because of my age, even though I am healthy, I do not rationally believe I should be one of the 35 admitted. Of course emotionally I feel differently, but rationally ..............................

This is the same type of dehumanizing study that we were forced to go through during Human Relations and Government classes (given by our local liberal) when I was in High School / College. It's -this- type of thinking that gets people to thinking they are gods and above the Lord.

We all remember the 'worst-case-scenario' scene where there's a nuclear shelter and we have to choose from a list of persons to go inside the shelter. The teacher just sits back and lets the kids argue amongst one another and then jumps in from time to time to stir things up by saying things like, 'If he's not choosing the black militant student, doesn't that make him a racist?' And how about the young mentally challenged person, what good is he going to do for your group?

I received an "F" in my college Human Relations course simply because I stood up during class and said that I didn't think that it was our right to pick and choose who lives in these situations and that I thought the exercise was simply dehumanizing the groups that we didn't feel should be put in the shelter. I had very good grades on all assignments and other tests throughout the semester but this woman felt that I undermined her authority and wanted to fail me. Luckily I had kept every single assignment and filed a grievance with the Dean, who over turned the grade.

This is the exact arguements that the liberals want us debating! Once we begin to answer and say who deserves what we're doomed to keep answering more and more difficult questions posed by them that mean absolutely NOTHING in the long run. It's a theoretical question posed by so-called intellectuals merely to stir up controversy and to get you to look down on life in general.

It's a crock. Don't fall for CTB's theoreticals... they're just meant to confound and confuse, taking away our faith in the Lord and put it in men.

 

[Twizzler]

Can you say... Eugenics? Margaret Sanger? Planned Parenthood? A life is a life! Once you begin saying that one life is worth more than another, they've got you and will begin beating you over the head about when life begins and all sorts of other nonsense.

 

[Johnv]

THe OP isn't particularly unusual news. Medical facilities routinely prepare for cases of the flu every year around this time. The only thing different would be that they're preparing for H1N1a.

 

[abcgrad94]

I believe one goal of any guideline should be 'the greatest good for the greatest number of people'.

Muslims believe the greatest good for the greatest number of people equals the killing of innocent non-muslims. Pro-abortionists think the greatest good for the greatest number of people means killing "unwanted" babies. Hitler thought mentally handicapped people were of no value to the majority of society and should be killed.

The statement might sound nice, but in reality it is very dangerous. It is very flawed and heads down the slippery slope of man taking God's place in controlling life and death based on "the good of society." It takes away from the worth of the individual instead of acknowleging an individual's worth in God's eyes.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Muslims believe the greatest good for the greatest number of people equals the killing of innocent non-muslims. Pro-abortionists think the greatest good for the greatest number of people means killing "unwanted" babies. Hitler thought mentally handicapped people were of no value to the majority of society and should be killed.

The statement might sound nice, but in reality it is very dangerous. It is very flawed and heads down the slippery slope of man taking God's place in controlling life and death based on "the good of society." It takes away from the worth of the individual instead of acknowleging an individual's worth in God's eyes.

The comment was made in relation to setting up a criteria for who should be admitted and who should not be admitted to a hospital during a pandemic where all facilities and staff are overwhelmed by ill people.

What type of criteria do you think should be used ....

a lottery

young first

rich first

poor first

otherwise health first

elderly first

if not by lottery, who should be admitted last


?????????????

 

[abcgrad94]

The comment was made in relation to setting up a criteria for who should be admitted and who should not be admitted to a hospital during a pandemic where all facilities and staff are overwhelmed by ill people.

What type of criteria do you think should be used ....

I realize that, but it's still a very dangerous statement and I disagree with it. IF, and that's a huge IF, the hospitals are overcrowded, I think patients should be seen on a first come, first served basis just like they are now. Triage can be set up and utilized as said in a previous post. Also, in a national emergency we would need to think outside the box and use churches or schools as makeshift hospitals just like we did during the civil war. Rather than toss people into the streets, we could move them to the makeshift "hospitals" and if necessary get volunteers to help care for the sick. We have retired doctors and nurses as well as military with medical experience who can help. In a worst case scenario, family members can volunteer to help under supervision of a more qualified medic.

Creative minds will always be able to come up with a real solution instead of finding excuses not to help others.

 

[Johnv]

I concur. Triage, then FIFO. If, heaven forbid, there were some huge medical emergency crisis, the privilege of these types of difficult on-the-spot decisions should be left to the medical personnel on hand. They should not be made by pencil pushers, or by armchair beurocrats such as us.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I still think H1N1a is "much ado about nothing". It is typical of liberal policy-makers to create crises where none exist in order to deflect attention from their inability to make common-sense decisions that reflect the reality of the situation rather than a dramatized hyperbole of the situation.

Matter of fact, "dramatized hyperbole" seems to pretty much fit the actions of the Obama administration so far, IMHO.

 

[Johnv]

I likewise think it's much ado about nothing. OTOH, I can understand the propensoty to be prepared and have it be nothing, rather than be unprepared and have it be something.

The hype over H1N1a, though, is imo mostly the result of the media making a mountain out of a molehill, at least at first. It's not the media's fault that many have bought into the hype.

That said, I get my H1N1a shot this week (with another one in 3 weeks). I'm a business traveller, and don't want to be in a position of inadvertently spreading H1N1a unnecessarily.

 

[Twizzler]

Muslims believe the greatest good for the greatest number of people equals the killing of innocent non-muslims. Pro-abortionists think the greatest good for the greatest number of people means killing "unwanted" babies. Hitler thought mentally handicapped people were of no value to the majority of society and should be killed.

The statement might sound nice, but in reality it is very dangerous. It is very flawed and heads down the slippery slope of man taking God's place in controlling life and death based on "the good of society." It takes away from the worth of the individual instead of acknowleging an individual's worth in God's eyes.

Preach it, Sister!

 

[Revmitchell]

I have answered it repeatedly.

The answer just isn't small enough to suit you.

And it also doesn't fit with the current lib paradigm of creating a crisis where one doesn't exist in order to grab power.

By his own admission he is hounding you only because he does not like your earlier statement. Apparently you attacked his lord.

 

[Revmitchell]

This is the same type of dehumanizing study that we were forced to go through during Human Relations and Government classes (given by our local liberal) when I was in High School / College. It's -this- type of thinking that gets people to thinking they are gods and above the Lord.

Well if you are willing to slaughter unborn children then why not seasoned citizens. It is a dehumanization and a loss of respect for life. It all plays into population control to save the earth.

 

[Revmitchell]

I still think H1N1a is "much ado about nothing". It is typical of liberal policy-makers to create crises where none exist in order to deflect attention from their inability to make common-sense decisions that reflect the reality of the situation rather than a dramatized hyperbole of the situation.

Matter of fact, "dramatized hyperbole" seems to pretty much fit the actions of the Obama administration so far, IMHO.

Yep everything with Obama is a big scare. And I mean everything. Liberals are really working overtime to set up their communist "the greater good for the greater number of people" lunacy. Shame on them.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I think some Christians work harder to save people from the swine flu than they do to spread the gospel of saving grace.