Praise God for G.W.Bush!

[carpro]

Originally Posted by Hope of Glory

I didn't know you had anything to do with writing these laws that are so damaging to poor people, which is what raising the minimum wage does. It actually harms everyone except for the politicians who buy votes with it. May businesses are on the verge of going under, and this is the final straw. Happened last time, it will probably happen this time.



Originally Posted by Terry_Herrington
No wonder you can't see that Bush lied; you don't even recognize a lie when you are the one telling it! :laugh:

So, you are now stooping to calling someone a liar when they present an opinion that is based upon sound economics?

Now, accusing him of wanting all those businesses to go under was sarcasm, based upon his vacuous accusations that I don't care about poor people.

But, his personal attacks, much like yours, does nothing to help poor people.

But, it sure does sound good to raise minimium wage for the poor people, even though it never does.

Kinda like the "tax cuts for the rich" statement that liberals always throw around while ignoring the extra revenue pouring into government coffers due to more tax revenue from these rate reductions. (Now, if Bush and Congress would quit wasting so much on givaway programs to buy votes.)

Unfortunately Terry has not only resorted to name calling, he is clearly wrong in his assertion that you are lying.

He is apparently confused about the facts concerning the effects of a min. wage increase. A lttle reading would come in handy before he starts calling names.

 

[Rooselk]

Originally Posted by Hope of Glory

I didn't know you had anything to do with writing these laws that are so damaging to poor people, which is what raising the minimum wage does. It actually harms everyone except for the politicians who buy votes with it. May businesses are on the verge of going under, and this is the final straw. Happened last time, it will probably happen this time.

Yeah, let's show our Christian compassion for the poor by paying them subsistance wages at a level that won't even pay for the basics required to feed, clothe, and house one's family. That is the proper way to reward work, right?

Of course it also needs to be said that the problems you raise have been shown time and again to be nothing more than a myth. In truth, those excuses are deliberate lies used by conservatives like you to justify the further exploitation of the poor. I will even go farther: any employer who cannot pay wages that will allow an employee to at least rise above poverty level does not deserve to be in business. Franky, I have no sympathy whatsoever for exploiters of this type.

By the way, I wonder how many plantations went under when we abolished slavery in this country?

 

[steaver]

...just because God allowed it, and just because it was in His plan, does not mean that God assisted or that He approves of this war.

"it was God's plan".............then why bother with..........."But keep in mind that all of this would never have happened had this administration not gotten this country into a war that we did not "need" to fight."?

It would have happened BECAUSE it was God's Plan!! You want it both ways as if this administration could have made a different choice. If it was God's plan then stop blaming this administration for doing what God laid on their hearts to do.

You just ignored the examples from Scripture I gave in my last reply. I am not surprised you did this I am just pointing it out.

Why do you say I ignored scripture, I have no argument against the word of God. Have I been posting against God's word?

Of course you are assuming that God approves of everything He allows.

I am?

The point is if God allowed it and it was God's plan then why fuss over and over that we never should have done it? It is done and it was God's plan so move on already and let's see what God has in store for these governments next.

No, our military is the new government. Without our American forces that "government" in Iraq would fall apart and fall apart quickly.

Then it is good that we stay until it can support itself? Or should we pull out and let them die?

I have to wonder if you be this supportive of the war in Iraq if Gore had become president in '00 and if he, not Bush, was the one who lead us into Iraq in '03. Did you support Clinton's war in Yugoslavia? Or how about Clinton's "miniwar" in Iraq (Desert Fox)?

If God is the One who moves the hearts of men to change governments then I support the moves God dictates men to make. I could care less if it is a democrat or a republican. World affairs is God's business. It matters not what party is at the lead when God calls for action.

God Bless!

 

[Martin]

If it was God's plan then stop blaming this administration for doing what God laid on their hearts to do.

==So, using this logic, I assume you would not have blamed Hitler and the Nazis for the Holocaust? I assume you would not have blamed Nero for killing Christians? The logic you are using here is unBiblical and faulty.

If God is the One who moves the hearts of men to change governments then I support the moves God dictates men to make. I could care less if it is a democrat or a republican. World affairs is God's business. It matters not what party is at the lead when God calls for action.

==That is too general. Did you support Clinton's war in Yugoslavia? Or how about Clinton's "miniwar" in Iraq (Desert Fox)?

 

[steaver]

So, using this logic, I assume you would not have blamed Hitler and the Nazis for the Holocaust? I assume you would not have blamed Nero for killing Christians? The logic you are using here is unBiblical and faulty.

The Holocaust was an attempt to exterminate a group of people. How is this comparable to warning a mad-man to submit or else we will take you out?

Targeting Christians for murder is upon the same line as Hitler's Holocaust.

God allowed Hitler to be unleashed against the Jews. God also drawed the USA in to stop him! When God wants us to stop in Iraq, we will be stopped.

Your logic is mixing apples with oranges. My "analysis" is biblically sound.

That is too general. Did you support Clinton's war in Yugoslavia? Or how about Clinton's "miniwar" in Iraq (Desert Fox)?

Actually I was not involved in caring what the government was doing at that time. I was doing my own thing. I had no opinion. Didn't even vote and i always said if one does not vote then one has no right to complain.

God Bless!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Rooselk,

Who is making minimum wage for the most part?

How much benefit is there when jobs go away?

Who is trying to raise a family on one single minimum wage job?

Do you have any idea just how many small business owners (the largest group of employers in our nation) live below the poverty level for a long time, sacrificing and working hard in order to one day realize that American dream?

 

[Hope of Glory]

I just had a thought:

Since raising the minimum wage is a panacea to fix everything, why don't we push to raise it to $100 per hour?

That would make everyone rich, and raise everyone out of poverty, right?

 

[Martin]

The Holocaust was an attempt to exterminate a group of people. How is this comparable to warning a mad-man to submit or else we will take you out?

==It's not comparable, I'm just taking your logic to its logical conclusions and using a little hyperbole. You have been claiming that it is wrong for me to say that the war in Iraq is "unjust" because Bush's actions in Iraq were in God's plan because God allowed it to happen. I am pointing out to you that Hitler, like Bush, was an elected head of state. As head of state he took certain actions. Clearly God allowed Hitler to take those actions. Certainly Hitler's actions, as elected head of state, were unjust and immoral. Simply because God allowed Hitler's government to take those actions does not mean that God approved of those actions or that we can't call those actions immoral and unjust. In a similar way just because God allowed Bush to invade Iraq and topple Saddam does not mean that God approves of the invasion nor does it mean that the invasion (etc) was the "just" or "right" thing to do. I have pointed to several Scripture where it is clear that even though God allowed a ruler to rise to power, and perform various actions, does not mean that God approved of that leader or that leader's actions.

I also have a problem with the idea that it is our job, our being the United States, to patrol the world and be the world's police. It is not our place to go around toppling governments simply because they are evil. On top of that Saddam was not a large enough threat to the United States to warrant a four year war that has cost millions of dollars and thousands of lives.

God allowed Hitler to be unleashed against the Jews. God also drawed the USA in to stop him! When God wants us to stop in Iraq, we will be stopped.

==You are missing the whole point. Just because God allowed the United States to invade Iraq does not mean that the war in Iraq is just. It just means that God, for some reason, allowed it to happen. The war can still very well be unjust.

My "analysis" is biblically sound.

==I think I have clearly shown otherwise. You are assuming that just because God allowed Bush to invade Iraq that the invasion was just. I am trying to show that your assumption is a unBiblical and illogical assumption.

 

[Petra-O IX]

I just had a thought:

Since raising the minimum wage is a panacea to fix everything, why don't we push to raise it to $100 per hour?

That would make everyone rich, and raise everyone out of poverty, right?

Oh, I have a better idea. Lets lower the cost of living.Lets lower the cost on everything after all that is what it's all about keeping up with cost of living isn't?
The cost of living goes up then a raise in minimum wages are necessary or we lower the cost of living.

 

[Rooselk]

Rooselk,

Who is making minimum wage for the most part?

How much benefit is there when jobs go away?

Who is trying to raise a family on one single minimum wage job?

Do you have any idea just how many small business owners (the largest group of employers in our nation) live below the poverty level for a long time, sacrificing and working hard in order to one day realize that American dream?

Well since as you say that no employers are paying the minimum wage, and no workers are trying to raise a family on the earnings of a single minimum wage, I guess there should be no objections to raising it, right?

I note that you use the word "single" with reference to households working for minimum wage. Should I take that to mean that Christian conservatives have changed their view and now believe that it is appropriate that a mother with small children should work outside the home?

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

I just had a thought:

Since raising the minimum wage is a panacea to fix everything, why don't we push to raise it to $100 per hour?

That would make everyone rich, and raise everyone out of poverty, right?

Why don't we just cut everyone's wages in half? Then they'd have to pay less taxes! Hey, that would be great wouldn't it?

 

[Petra-O IX]

Why don't we just cut everyone's wages in half? Then they'd have to pay less taxes! Hey, that would be great wouldn't it?

:thumbs: Excellent idea StraightAndNarrow! Lets make it retroactive so that all of us will only have half as much wealth .

 

[Hope of Glory]

Well since as you say that no employers are paying the minimum wage, and no workers are trying to raise a family on the earnings of a single minimum wage, I guess there should be no objections to raising it, right?

I note that you use the word "single" with reference to households working for minimum wage. Should I take that to mean that Christian conservatives have changed their view and now believe that it is appropriate that a mother with small children should work outside the home?

When you make a statement such as this, I have to wonder if you're serious or not.

I'm going to assume you are.

First of all, I never said that no employers are paying minimum wage. There are a lot of teenagers, my son included, who work for minimum wage. (He's 15 and will start tomorrow.) In exchange, he will get some hands-on training.

However, when he gets that hands-on training, he will either move on and they will have to hire another inexperienced teenager, or they will have to pay him more. It depends on how valuable he is.

Employers know this. There are only two types of people working for minimum wage: Those with no skills and starting at the bottom, or those who do so voluntarily, such as waiters and pizza drivers, who also get tips in exchange for hard work.

Anyone who is trying to raise a family on a single minimum wage income should be ashamed! A little hard work, and he would be making well above minimum, and he could do like many small business owners and work just a little bit more than 40 hours per week. Biblical evidence seems to show to me that God's intent is that we would work 72 hours per week.

Also, I have no problem with a mother working outside the home, as long as they are taking care of their children. My wife and I have always worked it so that one of us was off when our son was at home. That meant a little effort; it meant working odd hours, and losing a little bit of sleep. At one point, I was working 1 full time job, running a business, and working 2 part time jobs on weekends to pay the bills. It takes effort. It's not easy. It was also only temporary. God provides.

But, we've become a lazy society, expecting our Sugar Daddy Government to steal and extort from the producers to give to non-producers, instead of working hard to actually earn our keep.

All a minimum wage increase does is raise the artificially low wage suppression, put teenagers in positions of not getting a little cash and getting hands-on training, and shuts the doors of many businesses.

So, why should we not simply raise minimum wage to $100 per hour? We could all be rich with no effort, right?

 

[steaver]

You have been claiming that it is wrong for me to say that the war in Iraq is "unjust" because Bush's actions in Iraq were in God's plan because God allowed it to happen. I am pointing out to you that Hitler, like Bush, was an elected head of state. As head of state he took certain actions. Clearly God allowed Hitler to take those actions. Certainly Hitler's actions, as elected head of state, were unjust and immoral. Simply because God allowed Hitler's government to take those actions does not mean that God approved of those actions or that we can't call those actions immoral and unjust. In a similar way just because God allowed Bush to invade Iraq and topple Saddam does not mean that God approves of the invasion nor does it mean that the invasion (etc) was the "just" or "right" thing to do. I have pointed to several Scripture where it is clear that even though God allowed a ruler to rise to power, and perform various actions, does not mean that God approved of that leader or that leader's actions.

Fair analysis. So here is the bottom line. Bush may or may not be justified in God's eyes for invading Iraq. However the war is just in God's eyes for God's purposes. Therefore we cannot say that it never should have happened because in hindsight, knowing that it is God who is in control of these kind of events, we know that God was just to let it happen.

So you can call Bush unjust for his actions, but you cannot call the war itself unjust because it was God's will who allowed it.

This would be the same for Hitler's holocaust. Hitler was unjust and a murderer, but the allowed action was just in God's eyes for the spiritual sake of the Jews that some might repent and call on Jesus to save them.

All actions are just for God's sake and God's purposes even though the person through whom those actions are taken is found to be unjust.

Bush you may judge is an unjust man in taking this action, I personally do not judge him as such, however the war itself is just for God's purposes and we cannot declare that it never should have happened even if we don't like it. And who likes any war? But God has declared that war must take place until Jesus returns.

I also have a problem with the idea that it is our job, our being the United States, to patrol the world and be the world's police. It is not our place to go around toppling governments simply because they are evil. On top of that Saddam was not a large enough threat to the United States to warrant a four year war that has cost millions of dollars and thousands of lives.

You are still not understanding the bigger picture. It is God who draws governments into these places around the world for His own purposes and His own final results. You cannot stop it no matter how badly you hate it. Pray that God's will be done QUICKLY!

You are missing the whole point. Just because God allowed the United States to invade Iraq does not mean that the war in Iraq is just. It just means that God, for some reason, allowed it to happen. The war can still very well be unjust.

The war is just. Bush might be unjust. I believe he had noble intentions though.

I think I have clearly shown otherwise. You are assuming that just because God allowed Bush to invade Iraq that the invasion was just. I am trying to show that your assumption is a unBiblical and illogical assumption.

Your opinion is noted. I disagree.

God Bless!

 

[Martin]

Bush may or may not be justified in God's eyes for invading Iraq. However the war is just in God's eyes for God's purposes. Therefore we cannot say that it never should have happened because in hindsight, knowing that it is God who is in control of these kind of events, we know that God was just to let it happen.

==Again, just because God allowed it to happen does not mean that God approves of it or that we should approve.

This would be the same for Hitler's holocaust. Hitler was unjust and a murderer, but the allowed action was just in God's eyes for the spiritual sake of the Jews that some might repent and call on Jesus to save them.

==Is "just" the term you really want to use? I think I know what you are saying but I am not sure I would use the term "just". I would say that God allowed those things to happen as part of His larger plan. However God certainly condemned the actions taken by Hitler (etc).

You are still not understanding the bigger picture. It is God who draws governments into these places around the world for His own purposes and His own final results. You cannot stop it no matter how badly you hate it. Pray that God's will be done QUICKLY!

==In the paragraph you are responding to here I was refering to political leaders (etc) and not any Divine perspective.

The war is just. Bush might be unjust. I believe he had noble intentions though.

==I believe Bush has noble intentions as well and I don't believe he lied us into war as some do. I just think he is wrong, very wrong.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

==I believe Bush has noble intentions as well and I don't believe he lied us into war as some do. I just think he is wrong, very wrong.

That is the clearest most lucid and reasonable explanation of the President I have heard in a while. And I agree. To explain it any other way is to reveal a poltical agenda.

 

[StefanM]

==I believe Bush has noble intentions as well and I don't believe he lied us into war as some do. I just think he is wrong, very wrong.

I agree. I think that his decision for war was made on misinterpretation of information rather than outright lies.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I agree. I think that his decision for war was made on misinterpretation of information rather than outright lies.

Thats right although the left wants people to believe such nonsense because they want to use it to falsely incriminate the President to create a false idea so as to gian power. Every time this accusation is repeated it is to gain power. and to satisfy a lust for hate. And nothing else.

 

[saturneptune]

Thats right although the left wants people to believe such nonsense because they want to use it to falsely incriminate the President to create a false idea so as to gian power. Every time this accusation is repeated it is to gain power. and to satisfy a lust for hate. And nothing else.

The problem with that analysis and the novel thick posts above totally ignore the fact, and this is the crux of the problem from a conservative standpoint. Bush is part of the left. You all can spend hours trying to remake the guy (sounds like a new reality show), but the fact is, Bush is of the left, right in the thick of it.

No long posts are necessary to explain why, the record is quite clear. There is nothing more sickening than a liberal republican. I expect it of the democrats.

Get your head out of the sand. Its time for a change.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

The problem with that analysis and the novel thick posts above totally ignore the fact, and this is the crux of the problem from a conservative standpoint. Bush is part of the left. You all can spend hours trying to remake the guy (sounds like a new reality show), but the fact is, Bush is of the left, right in the thick of it.

I'm a proud Democrat, and we don't want any part of George W. Bush!

No long posts are necessary to explain why, the record is quite clear. There is nothing more sickening than a liberal republican. I expect it of the democrats.

There is nothing worse than a president who misleads us into an unnecessary war!

Get your head out of the sand. Its time for a change.

Don't worry Saturneptune I believe we Democrats will give you a change in 2009, a change for the better!