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Featured Preventing God's Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Hahaha...yea right!

    You used Philippians 1:19 to proof text "your conversion" when Paul is not speaking of his.

    Philippians 1:19 for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

    You used it because a translation said "my salvation".

    TOTAL PROOF TEXTING
     
    #81 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You may want to go back and check the context again:

    1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God’s Spirit.

    The things of man (lost men) contrasted with the things of God.

    12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God.

    The lost, worldly things contrasted with the things of the Spirit.

    13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

    Man's wisdom contrasted with God's wisdom.

    Now, the unsaved person doesn’t accept the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolish to him, and he can’t understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    And way back in verses 2 - 5 he sets the context:

    2 For I determined not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    5 that your faith wouldn’t stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

    Seems very clear to me.
     
    #82 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So are you saying that a person who is saved, converted, is not delivered from his sin?
     
    #83 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    But your faith does stand exclusively in the wisdom of men.
    MB
     
    #84 MB, Dec 14, 2017
  5. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I assume that you are making reference to Romans 1. What Romans 1 says is that natural revelation is enough to condemn a man, but not save him. There is only a Creator in Romans 1, not a Savior.

    Secondly, this passage is a condemnation of ALL men, unless you are telling me that you are not a sinner.

    Romans 1:18–32

    God's Wrath on Unrighteousness

    [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. [19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [20] For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. [21] For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [22] Claiming to be wise, they became fools, [23] and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

    [24] Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, [25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    [26] For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; [27] and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    [28] And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. [29] They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, [30] slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, [31] foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. [32] Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (ESV)
     
    #85 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Hey, I've read that in the Bible before!
     
    #86 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It doesn't stand at all in the wisdom of men. My faith stands entirely in the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    #87 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  8. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    So if I tell you that God's will is that nobody goes to Hell, and that people do it anyway due to their failing to trust Jesus as Savior, that is unacceptable to you because that goes against God's "sovereignty". But you can accept that a saved, child of God has the free will to "fail to do the will of God"? (which I agree with)

    So, after we're saved we can choose to "love this present world" or "present our bodies a living sacrifice" but the lost sinner has no choice at all? Sir, God's will was accomplished on Calvary when the Mighty God" and Prince of Peace laid down His life and tasted death for every man. It is God's will that men have a choice to choose Him or choose death. Yes, His will shall be accomplished and as to "sovereignty", he will put rejecters and false prophets in Hell.
     
    #88 SheepWhisperer, Dec 14, 2017
  9. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    So if I tell you that God's will is that nobody goes to Hell, and that people do it anyway due to their failing to trust Jesus as Savior, that is unacceptable to you because that goes against God's "sovereignty". But you can accept that a saved, child of God has the free will to "fail to do the will of God"? (which I agree with)

    So, after we're saved we can choose to "love this present world" or "present our bodies a living sacrifice" but the lost sinner has no choice at all? Sir, God's will was accomplished on Calvary when the Mighty God" and Prince of Peace laid down His life and tasted death for every man. It is God's will that men have a choice to choose Him or choose death. Yes, His will shall be accomplished and as to His "sovereignty", He will put rejecters and false prophets in Hell.
     
    #89 SheepWhisperer, Dec 14, 2017
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I don't believe man can "prevent" God's will at all. If He wants something done, IT WILL BE DONE!
     
    #90 robycop3, Dec 19, 2017
  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I agree. So we are clear then, God does not will all men saved.
     
    #91 thatbrian, Dec 19, 2017
  12. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Why wasn't His will done here?

    Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
     
    #92 SheepWhisperer, Dec 26, 2017
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