1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Professional Christians

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by blessedwife318, Aug 1, 2015.

Top Posters
Page 2 of 2
  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do as well. There is, however, some problems that often prevent that.
     
    #21 Revmitchell, Aug 2, 2015
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't know if this answers your questions, but I think that we (as a whole) have come to the point where we look to hire a professional staff to operate our worship services and local churches. This is from my experience, and I know that there are many churches that do not operate this way. But for me, church is my study group right after we leave the show. Here are some things that I've noticed (and in and of themselves they may or may not be an issue): Our church budget is 2 million - over half (over one million) goes to staff salaries; if you want to be on the 'praise team' you have to audition; we got rid of volunteers in the sound booth as they were not professional enough; everything is an outsourced program, nothing is organic to the church.
     
    #22 JonC, Aug 2, 2015
  3. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    445
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is tragic although not surprising. My brother works at a megachurch and they even hire the musicians regardless of faith. Drives me up the wall because as I have told him on more then one occasion that you can't tell me that in a church of over 3000 that there is no one that can play this or that instrument.
     
    #23 blessedwife318, Aug 2, 2015
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Professional Christians, defined as professing Christians who are (1) paid for their services, and (2) have a degree in something related to church ministry, are not necessarily those God has given to the church as teachers. Some no doubt are like TV evangelists wearing bling and constantly asking for money. Others, of course, are the missionaries that are pouring out their lives for Christ in abject worldly poverty.

    Many think they are God's gift to the church, and act accordingly, i.e. my way or the highway.
     
    #24 Van, Aug 2, 2015
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Professional:
    paid - yes
    Degree - not necessarily
     
    #25 Salty, Aug 2, 2015
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Salty, I doubt the secretarial or janitorial staff is in view when the term Professional Christian is used. :)

    I was seeking to point out that professional is often used to refer to those with accredited expertise.
     
    #26 Van, Aug 2, 2015
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's both. In fact it's more detrimental if the mother abdicates her responsibility than it is when the father does it.
     
    #27 Aaron, Aug 2, 2015
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,462
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree ....but should you clarify that statement a little more Aaron? For the folks at home :laugh:
     
    #28 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 2, 2015
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :smilewinkgrin: I'm responding to the idea that the common failures of the man are somehow more detrimental to the family than the failures of the woman. No doubt failures from either can really muck things up, but even if the man were a blend of Paul Bunyan, St. Patrick and Noah Webster, a woman who doesn't help pull the plow will bring that family down below the ground, and there isn't a thing the man can do about it.
     
    #29 Aaron, Aug 2, 2015
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,462
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Oh soooooo true:thumbs:
     
    #30 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 2, 2015
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is a problem letting the pendulum swing too far the other way. While a church should not resemble corporate America, it should act responsibly. Pastors and elders should be able to faithfully teach the Bible. Worship should be biblical. The saints are responsible for ministry. If a church doesn't have a concert-worthy violinist, then it doesn't have one. It should do without. Those who worship the Father are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God requires that and nothing more.
     
    #31 Reformed, Aug 2, 2015
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I shouldn't read threads before I go to church. I thought about this tread throughout service today and came up with these conclusions:

    The church in America is adrift. It is consistently reinventing itself in an attempt to resonate with an ever changing culture. Gone is that chain of tradition that once anchored and linked several generations of believers to Truth. Instead of focusing on what God has done and the gospel, our churches seem more focused on what we do (our worship, our outreach, our praise, our ministry, etc). As we shift to focus on how we “do church” instead of how God builds the Church (those who believe are added to the Body of Christ which gathers for the building up of the saints and goes out to reach others for the Kingdom), I think it is natural that we become an obsessed with the secular business model and the professionalization of the church. Today’s church does not want members (as in functioning members of the Body); they want attendee. And for the most part, that’s what they get. And attendees do not want demands made on them, they want to watch the show and go home. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents…and I offer it at a loss.
     
    #32 JonC, Aug 2, 2015
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,462
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wow....ya are dead on. Now what do you do with that knowledge cause that's the important thing?

    Word of warning though, you might now be considered by 'some' as a malcontent. Guard your loins!;)
     
    #33 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 2, 2015
  14. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    445
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well said Jon. I just read this to my husband and he said he agreed. And then he reminded me of John Piper's book "Brothers we are not Professionals". I can't believe I forgot about that book considering I read it with my husband.
     
    #34 blessedwife318, Aug 3, 2015
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Good thoughts Jon

    I visit another strange SB church this week....they had a band with drummer included, loud guitars and bad singing of choruses.

    At one point the "speaker" paused the entertainment and sat down on the front of the platform.....he said....I know some or most of you are.not singing along.....for whatever reason...I could have shouted out the reason....the music was way too loud...the singing was bad, horrible little 4 or 5 word repetitive lines.....people tolerated it because he was a.nice guy...but it was pathetically tragic. I would have been embarrassed if I brought a visitor to the service.....it was horrible....the speaker while sincere...should not have been up there...

    They had more entertainment in the form of 2 large screen tvs....the speaker paused two times to.play some short videos.....it was a totally fragmented presentation.....
    ....
    In SS....THEY USED these little sort of devotional booklets....the person leading explained to me that he is not a teacher...just a ....."facilatator"...which meant that he was more in a rush to read through the questions than to open scriptures up.....some in the class offered some good imput....but he rushed past because it was out of his comfort zone....the lesson was from rev2....church at Ephesus. ....
     
    #35 Iconoclast, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2015
  16. Servent

    Servent Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    0
    I must not attend an average church, our pastor has been there 10 years, youth pastor 20, children minister 9 years, music minister over 15. We have teams that go out through our neighborhoods weekly missions trips all over the word, and on going one on one discipleship programs. our motto across the street and around the world
     
    #36 Servent, Aug 3, 2015
  17. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    445
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So I realized I must have hit a nerve with my comment about the role of fathers and I apologies for that. I in no way think that its all up to the father to raise his children. That is something that involves both parents and Scripture speaks to the roles both mother and father have in raising children.
    But Scripture is clear that the man is the leader of the household, and yes on the flip side that means that the wife is responsible to follow her husband. She is responsible for her role as well but we can't just pass blame back and forth. Each person needs to fulfill their Biblical role and be held accountable to it.
    Now I will tell you when my husband and I were going through premarital counseling a thought I had that to this day I find very sobaring. I have been in leadership positions in jobs (assistant store manager), and I understand that as a leader I take the blame for what happens with those below me. Example if we got a bad survey while I was the Manager on Duty I was the one that got a talking too, and then was expected to find out what happened with my associates working under me and solve the problem. So I took this idea and applied to to marriage, and my husband is over me which means he could be called into account for my failings and that really hit me. I mean if you look at any list of qualifications for pastors, he is not the only one that has to meet the standards laid out, his wife has standards to meet as well, meaning of wife cna destroy her husbands ministry opportunities. Thinking about that helps me keep my husband in respect and to be conscious of how our role do intersect with each other. But then this is digressing form the topic of this tread but I wanted to reply to you. And apologise once again for hitting a nerve.
     
    #37 blessedwife318, Aug 3, 2015
  18. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    445
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That sounds like an amazing church. You are truly blessed. :)
     
    #38 blessedwife318, Aug 3, 2015
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes the failure of Fathers has more weight than the mother. He has the Ultimate responsibility.
     
    #39 Revmitchell, Aug 3, 2015
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You didn't hit a nerve with me. My observations over the last three decades have exposed the Western, Feminism-infused pop theology that says if the man walks on water, then the woman and the rest of the family is saved.
     
    #40 Aaron, Aug 5, 2015
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 2
Loading...