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Prove That Sunday Is the Christian Sabbath

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TheThirdAngel144, Jan 18, 2018.

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  1. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    And is sabbath observance an outward or an inward identifying circumstance? And is [outward] circumcision still required?

    BTW precisely where is God's International Dateline? You might be out there on a ship and not know whether it is evil to reef out a sail, depending on what day it is, or if you must continue on a wrong course to stay within his law.
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Christ is the "rest" of the work of salvation.

    "It is finished".

    HankD
     
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  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    There are a great many ways to "quote yourself" the permutations are almost endless
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Let's ask God.

    In Exodus 16 "tomorrow the the Sabbath" said God.
    6 days a week manna... on the 7th day ... no manna.

    Did Moses "make manna" all night and then rain it down on Israel - or was it "God"?

    God said "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
    God said "the 7th day is the Sabbath of YHWH" Ex 20:10

    When we read "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 do we simply settle for not taking God's name in vain verbally while cursing God in thought? Clearly not! It is BOTH not taking His name in vain verbally AND not cursing God in thought.

    So obvious we never ask those sorts of questions about the Commandments of God we are not already doubting.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Catholics speak out of both sides of their mouth.
    Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II calls for "civil penalties" for failure to observe the Papal Sabbath.

    Dies Domini -

    47. Even if in the earliest times it was not judged necessary to be prescriptive, the Church has not ceased to confirm this obligation of conscience, which rises from the inner need felt so strongly by the Christians of the first centuries. It was only later, faced with the half-heartedness or negligence of some, that the Church had to make explicit the duty to attend Sunday Mass: more often than not, this was done in the form of exhortation, but at times the Church had to resort to specific canonical precepts. This was the case in a number of local Councils from the fourth century onwards (as at the Council of Elvira of 300, which speaks not of an obligation but of penalties after three absences)(78) and most especially from the sixth century onwards (as at the Council of Agde in 506).(79) These decrees of local Councils led to a universal practice, the obligatory character of which was taken as something quite normal.(80)


    Dies Domini pt 13 -

    "the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.


    CCC -- Catholic Catechism


    2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.


    2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

    ====================
    The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

    1965 -- first published 1959
    (from "The Faith Explained" page 243

    "we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

    The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

    nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

    ========================================
     
    #25 BobRyan, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    15th day of the 7th month ... can happen on any day of the week and we both know it. You are attempting misdirection.

    By contrast Acts 18:4 "EVERY SABBATH" they attend for gospel preaching in the Synagogue
     
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I'm a christian everyday not just once a week.

    Luke 9

    23And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
     
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  8. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Let's also ask him what the penalty is for working on the sabbath:
    Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp” [Numbers 15:32-35].
    Is this what you are advocating?

    And you answered only a small part of my post. I will quote it again for you

     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Let's ask God.

    In Exodus 16 "tomorrow the the Sabbath" said God.
    6 days a week manna... on the 7th day ... no manna.

    Did Moses "make manna" all night and then rain it down on Israel - or was it "God"?

    God said "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
    God said "the 7th day is the Sabbath of YHWH" Ex 20:10


    When we read "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 do we simply settle for not taking God's name in vain verbally while cursing God in thought? Clearly not! It is BOTH not taking His name in vain verbally AND not cursing God in thought.

    So obvious we never ask those sorts of questions about the Commandments of God we are not already doubting.


    And for taking God's name in vain...

    So obvious we never ask those sorts of questions about the Commandments of God we are not already doubting.

    And let's ask the "Baptist Confession of Faith" if they know the difference between moral law (Ten commandments) and "civil law" since you are now claiming you don't know it and apparently you think that if it is really sin to "take God's name in vain" then the death penalty must be given for it.
     
  10. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    The commandments were just moral laws to the ones to whom Moses presented them. To me, the different commandments may or may not be criminal law. I advocate the death penalty for murder, and prison for theft, for 2 examples. Do you believe the sabbath command is the same requirement with the same consequences-- yes or no?

    And you answered only a small part of my post. I will quote it again for you

    Alcott said:
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    So, is it fair to say no one here believes that the Christian Sabbath is Sunday?

    Seems like the two sides are the Christian rest being on Saturday vs in Christ.
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Suit yourself.

    HankD
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 11 is a great place to NOT find the statement "Jesus Christ is the Christian Sabbath".



    Matthew 11
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light

    God "gave us" the Sun and the Sabbath - but God is not "the Sun" or the "Sabbath"

    That was easy.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Paul never made such an argument
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    No one, as far as I know, has made such an argument.
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Let's ask God.

    In Exodus 16 "tomorrow the the Sabbath" said God.
    6 days a week manna... on the 7th day ... no manna.

    Did Moses "make manna" all night and then rain it down on Israel - or was it "God"?

    God said "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
    God said "the 7th day is the Sabbath of YHWH" Ex 20:10


    When we read "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 do we simply settle for not taking God's name in vain verbally while cursing God in thought? Clearly not! It is BOTH not taking His name in vain verbally AND not cursing God in thought.

    So obvious we never ask those sorts of questions about the Commandments of God we are not already doubting.

    And for taking God's name in vain...

    So obvious we never ask those sorts of questions about the Commandments of God we are not already doubting.

    And let's ask the "Baptist Confession of Faith" if they know the difference between moral law (Ten commandments) and "civil law" since you are now claiming you don't know it and apparently you think that if it is really sin to "take God's name in vain" then the death penalty must be given for it.

    "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
    "the saints KEEP the Commandments AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
    "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

    Even the Baptist Confession of Faith - will admit this about the TEN Commandments.

    Surely you know that the civil laws under theocracy do not apply outside of it -- just as the Baptist Confession of Faith also admits.

    Hence - no death penalty for those who "take God's name in vain".

    We all knew that ... right?

    as the Baptist Confession of Faith also admits civil laws under theocracy do not apply outside of it

    Hence - no death penalty for those who "take God's name in vain".

    As already posted before.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Nice!
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Yes, very nice. Decades ago I don't think this would have been the case, but it's been a very long time since I've heard the Sunday Sabbath argument.
     
  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    THERE IS NO Baptist Confession of Faith. There are many.
    The correct terminology would be "A Bap confession" or "Some Bap Confessions"
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    ok ...well.. someone should have told C.H. Spurgeon while he was alive... Probably too late now.
     
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