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Purpose Driven Life according to John MacArthur

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The site reads, "He pointed out, for example, that the true gospel is a call to self-denial, not self-fulfillment. The gospel is a message about redemption, not about life's purpose."

    MacArthur is wrong. The true gospel is self denial and humility in Christ. It is about redemption and a life of purpose in Christ. God do not create man without a purpose. He created man to glorify Himself.
     
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Ask MacArthur is he gives an invitation.
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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  4. bjonson

    bjonson New Member

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  5. Hal Parker

    Hal Parker New Member

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    Here is Rick Warren's Doctrinal Statement from his church

    It can be found at:

    http://www.saddleback.com/flash/believe2.html

    WHAT WE BELIEVE
    ABOUT GOD
    God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.
    Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

    ABOUT MAN
    Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God´s creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God.
    Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2

    ABOUT ETERNITY
    Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence.
    John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John 5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46

    ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
    Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords.
    Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13

    ABOUT SALVATION
    Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
    Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1

    ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
    Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security.
    John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5

    ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
    The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily.
    2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1

    ABOUT THE BIBLE
    The Bible is God´s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.
    2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5)


    Okay, where is the doctrinal error? If anything represents what Rick Warren actually believes this is it.
     
  6. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Jealousy is so UGLY! :eek:
     
  7. jshurley04

    jshurley04 New Member

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    I have read and taught from the book. I found it very good but not named properly. Ultimately, his book is about worship and how we should worship our creator God. If it were me, I would have used only one version of scripture to illustrate what is being taught. I find that multiple versions muddy the water rather than clarify.

    As far as teaching the book, I did find it difficult and challenging to teach. Especially doing so less than a year after it had been taught previously to the same group of teens. I would teach it again but on my terms and not being forced to teach something that my church of class of teens have just recently been taught the same thing.

    All in all, I like it and do not have any deep theological problems with what he has written. As far as his church, I have never been there and am unable to comment.
     
  8. bjonson

    bjonson New Member

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    Hal,

    I agree that his doctrinal statement is good. The problem is: does he consistently teach and speak from the perspective of his doctrinal statement? Rick Warren has been on Larry King, Oprah, etc., many times and I have yet to hear him declare that Jesus alone is the way to the Father. He has been asked if atheists and Muslims are created "with purpose" and, instead of stating boldly their need for Christ, he affirms that they are "purpose driven" but doesn't say what that purpose is!

    I have seen articles on Rick's PDL site that discuss the benefits of being "seeker sensitive" and others that say his church isn't "seeker sensitive". I can provide links to all of this.

    He is duplicitous - an unstable man - and that is what you have to consider when critiquing him. The doctrinal statement becomes irrelevant.

    Brian
     
  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I am not sure you wrote what he believes but rather what you believe about what you think he believes.

    To get it right wouldn't it be proper to get a response from him first.
     
  10. bjonson

    bjonson New Member

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  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Why in the world would you think jealousy would enter into this?
     
  12. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I read what you wrote. I went to the same seminary as Warren. Read his book. Went to one of the pastors conferences he has each year. Been to the church a few times. None of what I saw was anything like what I thought when I read the book before I went to the pastors conference. That book is written from his point of view and read from our viewpoint and background. If you are like me it is different.

    Certainly some of what he wrote does reminds me of Campus Crusade for Christ. But perhaps he got some of that from the SBC. For a long time the SBC has wanted to yoke itself with Campus Crusade. Even as recent as just a few years ago.
     
  13. APuritanMindset

    APuritanMindset New Member

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    Note the contradiction. He says it's not about me and then procedes to talk about me.
     
  14. APuritanMindset

    APuritanMindset New Member

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    I honestly tend to agree with Johnny Mac on this matter (I've read a couple of his critiques of the book although not the one linked to). PDL was...less than good in my eyes. The writing style was so soft and happy that it made me feel good just to read it. There was no major thought-provoking...anythings. There were some good comments here and there, but it was hard to read with all the silliness thrown in. An example of the silliness:

    After going through a "plan of salvation" so to speak he leads in a VERY silly sinner's prayer. That is where I'll pick up the quote:

    "Wherever you are reading this, I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: 'Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you.' Go ahead. If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!" (Pg. 58-59 of The Purpose Driven Life).

    If you don't think this is an error, here's another example:

    "Obedience unlocks GOd's power. God waits for you to act first" (Pg. 174-175 of The Purpose Driven Life).

    This smacks of Open Theism. God can't act until we act first. That is heresy.

    Another (and my final one for I have to go to class) example:

    "Much confusion in the Christian life comes from ignoring the simple truth that God is far more interested in building your character then he is anything else. We worry when God seems silent on specific issues such as 'What career should I choose?' The truth is, there are MANY different careers that could be in God's will for your life. What God cares about most if that whatever you do, you do in a Christlike manner." (Pg. 177 of The Purpose Driven Life)

    Since when is God more concerned with building my character than anything else?
     
  15. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I found this funny.

    [sarcasm]It must be heretical if it makes you feel good. The Good News is supposed to be Bad News.[/sarcasm]
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I found this funny.

    [sarcasm]It must be heretical if it makes you feel good. The Good News is supposed to be Bad News.[/sarcasm]
    </font>[/QUOTE]Kind of reminds me of what Spurgeon mentioned about how to act when preaching about heaven and hell. He mentioned when talking about heaven to have a big smile but when talking about hell the average face will do.

    Wasn't it Howard Hendricks who said, "You can be a fundamentalist but you don't have to act like one." I never understood what he meant until I attended seminary in an area where there were lots of churches and concerned over who was getting their piece of the pie. My ministry has always been in areas where there were few Christians.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Many in this thread have asked what is the objection to the concept of the "Purpose Driven Life".

    The word "driven" in this phrase sticks in my craw.

    It smacks to me of the world's definition of "driven" as a kind of neurosis of self-agression and assertiveness.

    Personally, I am not "driven" by a concept ("purpose") but led by a person, the Holy Spirit.

    I would have prefered a book which was named "The Spirit Led Life" (given the statistics of probability there is "probably" such a book) assuming the content is/was true to the title and a worthy exposition of the Scriptures.

    Well thats my 2 bucks worth (inflation you know).

    HankD
     
  18. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I think I agree with your comments and would say that a valid criticism of PDL is its similarity in style and influence from the "self-help" book industry. That in itself does not necessarily make it false teaching but indicates that it is a product marketed towards a specific and common demographic in our current culture and explains its popularity.
     
  19. APuritanMindset

    APuritanMindset New Member

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    I found this funny.

    [sarcasm]It must be heretical if it makes you feel good. The Good News is supposed to be Bad News.[/sarcasm]
    </font>[/QUOTE]If there was more to it than just making one feel good than I'd not make the complaint. The book is honestly nothing more than pop psychology dressed up in religious garb. We have enough self-help books on the market. Also, Christianity is not a self-help religion. We have no right to make it look and sound like one.

    When proclaiming the good news, I don't mind being happy or making people feel good. But he isn't proclaiming anything other than that God wants us to be good people. That isn't the good news at all. Jesus didn't die to make us good people, and behavior modification does nothing more than modify behavior. It takes grace to be saved. If that isn't being proclaimed, than the good news isn't being proclaimed, no matter how good you make it sound.
     
  20. shannonL

    shannonL New Member

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    I don't agree with everything Johnny Mac. has written. Nor do I particularly like RW. I have read the PDL a couple of times. Been through 40 days twice. In my opinion if you have any spiritual depth at all the PDL will bore you to death. It is old ideas freshened up in new lingo with alot of careless use of Scripture.
    I finally read Mac's book "Hard to believe" which concerns following Christ,denying self etc... He had a few thoughts in that book I couldn't agree with totally. However it seems that "Hard to believe" is the exact aspirin one needs to take after a PDL hangover. Hard to Believe really challenged me spiritually. The book was loaded with Scripture that was "in context" when expounded.Unlike alot of the little tidbits of phrases of the Word that you find in PDL.
    Just my two cents. "Hard to Believe" was a great book.
    I know I will probably get slammed for this but IMHO if a book is so ecumenically popular that muslims can read it an RC's and the like and everyone can dig it then there is something very wrong.
     
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