Question for Veterans...

[InTheLight]

Sarah Palin's son Track was arrested for assault and possession of a firearm while intoxicated. Sarah Palin seemed to blame her son's behavior on PTSD, even alluding that Obama played a role, albeit obliquely.
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Track Palin’s girlfriend feared he would shoot himself with an assault rifle after he hit her during a drunken argument at Sarah Palin’s Wasilla, Alaska, home, court documents reveal.

Palin, the 26-year-old son of the one-time GOP vice presidential nominee, was arrested for battering his girlfriend during the Monday night fracas, police said.

The oldest of Sarah Palin’s five children, Track allegedly punched his girlfriend in the eye, kicked her in the knee and then held an AR-15 assault rifle near his head, the 22-year-old woman told police who responded to the incident just after 10 p.m. Monday.

At one point, Track was “holding onto a gun, yelling ‘do you think I’m a p---y?’ and ‘do you think I won’t do it?’”

“My son like so many others, they come back a bit different, they come back hardened, they come back wondering if there is that respect for what it is that their fellow soldiers and airmen and every other member of the military so sacrificially have given to this country", Palin said. "And that starts from the top."

"It’s a shame that our military personnel even have to wonder, if they have to question, if they’re respected anymore. It starts from the top. The question though that comes from our own president where they have to look at him and wonder, do you know what we go through?"

"So when my own son is going through what he goes through coming back, I can certainly relate with other families who kind of feel these ramifications of some PTSD and some of the woundedness that our soldiers do return with," Sarah Palin said on Wednesday.

Does Palin have a point?
Is it credible to blame PSTD for Track Palin's assault on his girlfriend and threatening suicide?
Is Obama culpable, even just a little?

 

[Rob_BW]

I may be a bit jaded, but probably a full 3/4 of the people I personally know claiming PTSD are full of it, and only looking for a medical retirement or disability check.

With that said, I have no idea what Track Palin did overseas and how he may have been affected. Lots of people are affected by their wartime experiences, even to the extent that they are seriously debilitated, and I have plenty of friends who fall into that category also.

So I don't know about credible, but it is possible that PTSD factors in to this incident. Blaming the president seems a bit much, though.

 

[Revmitchell]

What are the symptoms of PTSD in veterans?
Symptoms sometimes don’t surface for months or even years after returning from deployment. While PTSD develops differently from veteran to veteran, there are four symptom clusters:

1. Recurrent, intrusive reminders of the traumatic event, including distressing thoughts, nightmares, and flashbacks where you feel like it’s happening again. Experiencing extreme emotional and physical reactions to reminders of the trauma (panic attacks, uncontrollable shaking, heart palpitations, etc.).
2. Extreme avoidance of things that remind you of the traumatic event, including people, places, people, thoughts, or situations you associate with the bad memories. Withdrawing from friends and family and losing interest in everyday activities.
3. Negative changes in thoughts and mood, such as exaggerated negative beliefs about yourself or the world and persistent feelings of fear, guilt, or shame. Diminished ability to experience positive emotions and feeling detached from others.
4. Being on guard all the time, jumpy, and emotionally reactive, as indicated by irritability, angry outbursts, reckless behavior, difficulty sleeping, trouble concentrating, hypervigilance, and an exaggerated start response.

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/ptsd-in-veterans.htm

 

[JonC]

I truly believe that PTSD is often misused as an excuse for improper behavior. I worked for several years at Walter Reed AMC on an impatient psychiatric ward dealing with many who had this disorder. I've also seen it used simply to collect a disability. Rev posted a link to the symptoms of PTSD, and looking at those symptoms I can see how PTSD could be a factor - but absolutely not enough of a factor to account for or excuse the behavior.

 

[Use of Time]

First off, domestic violence is never justified. Her son is 100% responsible for his actions and deserves whatever he gets in court. That said, PTSD is a complex issue and manifests differently in everyone who suffers from it. Her son's condition isn't a political football and using it to advance her agenda and take a jab at Obama was nauseating. For crying out loud Sarah focus on your family right now!

Even those without PTSD struggle with the reintegration to their families after being deployed at times up to 15 months. I know the first few months I was home were probably not my best as a husband and I don't believe I suffer from PTSD. Just the occasional nightmare.

 

[Revmitchell]

Considering the neglect of out troops after they return home by the VA I would say there is plenty of
"excuse".

 

[JonC]

Considering the neglect of out troops after they return home by the VA I would say there is plenty of
"excuse".

Reason and underlying issue, but I disagree as to excuse. Often abusive husbands were victims of abuse as a child. We even hear of child molesters having been victims themselves at a young age. These are all factors, and certainly we should look into how these could be prevented and where the processes failed, but these factors do not excuse the behavior.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Considering the neglect of out troops after they return home by the VA I would say there is plenty of
"excuse".

They would be getting better care of the GOP congressmen/women had not cut their budget and benefits. The House Appropriations Subcommittee is Republican Controlled as is the House of Representatives and indeed as is the Senate. These GOP proposals rob veterans. It isn't Obama asking for these cuts, it is the GOP. Don't blame Obama for what the GOP controlled congress does.

From: http://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/19356/how-1-4-billion-in-budget-cuts-will-impact-veterans/

Last week, the House Appropriations Subcommittee marked up the 2016 Veterans Affairs funding bill, and slashed more than $1.4 billion from the president’s requested budget for America’s Veterans. Today, VA Secretary Bob McDonald appeared before the Senate Appropriations Committee to discuss that budget proposal.

While some may argue this is not a drastic move, every cut and rescission of funds has real-world implications for Veterans across the country. Here are three ways these proposed congressional cuts will adversely affect the quality of care and services provided to Veterans next year if they are not reversed:

1. Medical Care

The Veterans Health Administration has expanded access to care, completing more than 46 million appointments between May 1, 2014, and Feb. 28, 2015. That’s an increase of 2 million more completed appointments than during the same time period in 2013-2014. VA has also begun to turn the corner on wait times – 97 percent of appointments are completed within 30 days, including 12 million same-day appointments.

2. New Facilities
Also wrapped up in the cuts to medical care is a reduction of $582 million to address VA’s high priority construction projects. This cut will reduce VA’s ability to provide additional outpatient services and will impact four major construction projects, including the long sought-after French Camp Community Based Outpatient Clinic in Livermore, California.

3. National Cemeteries
The National Cemetery Administration is consistently rated top in customer satisfaction for its work in honoring our nation’s Veterans and maintaining 3.3 million grave sites across 131 cemeteries. Proposed cuts would eliminate funding for several key cemetery expansion projects, reducing our ability to provide burial honors for as many as 18,000 Veterans and eligible family members each year.

 

[Revmitchell]

The problem is so often these guys cannot control their behavior. They are left to themselves and are in need of a controlled environment. Since that often does not occur and they are not provided for by the VA they are placed in impossible situations that is outside of reasonable expectations. Unfortunately, others are harmed in the wake of this severely grievous injustice to our troops.

 

[Zaac]

PTSD is used quite a bit. But if you go to a lot of the VA hospitals that deal with veterans, they'll tell you that they've gotten pretty good at knowing when people really have a problem vs someone trying to blow smoke up their behinds.

PTSD may have been a factor. If it was, then Palin is culpable if her son gets a gun in her home and does anything.

I mentioned this in another thread after having it confirmed by veterans who have come back from war and been assessed to have PTSD.

They ARE NOT allowed to have any guns on base if diagnosed with PTSD. Which brings up the purchase of guns by folks assessed to have mental illnesses. For the life of me, I still don't understand why not allowing these folks to legally purchase a gun is such a problem for some? Now if Palin's son really suffers from PTSD, then she and her husband are dumber than folks say if they were keeping firearms where he could get to them.

Is the President culpable? Perhaps. But considering the GOP led slashing of $1.4 BILLION of 2016 Veterans Affairs funding from the president’s requested budget for America’s Veterans, there's a lot of culpability to pass around.

 

[Zaac]

The problem is so often these guys cannot control their behavior. They are left to themselves and are in need of a controlled environment. Since that often does not occur and they are not provided for by the VA they are placed in impossible situations that is outside of reasonable expectations. Unfortunately, others are harmed in the wake of this severely grievous injustice to our troops.

It again, obviously, is not believed to be such an injustice by the GOP led Congress. If it were, they wouldn't have slashed the President's funding budget by 1.4 billion dollars.

It is a ridiculous shame that the leadership of political parties can be so partisan that they would, again OBVIOUSLY, be much more concerned with not "cooperating" with Obama to make sure he fails than they are concerned with the health and well being of returning soldiers.

 

[JonC]

The problem is so often these guys cannot control their behavior. They are left to themselves and are in need of a controlled environment. Since that often does not occur and they are not provided for by the VA they are placed in impossible situations that is outside of reasonable expectations. Unfortunately, others are harmed in the wake of this severely grievous injustice to our troops.

I agree. And this extends beyond the military to other groups of people who social services may have misjudged or overlooked. E.g., the man who responds to his son in abuse because he just couldn't control himself. Or the woman who in that moment of uncontrollable anger critically injuries her infant daughter. Factors, maybe even reasons, but not excuses.

I remember a study done in behavioral health. It concluded that to effectively deal with PTSD the issue needed to be identified and treatment initialized in the field. Once demobilized and assimilated back in a normal environment, it was difficult to treat these issues as the stressors became underlying and abstract whereas in the field they are immediate and "tangible". (Hence behavioral health - which identified issues and referred them to impatient care if needed - and psychiatric specialists - who worked in treatment within a hospital setting - were combined and I took that opportunity to become a combat engineer [emoji1] ). My point is the issue needs to be address pre-VA as well and still it is not an excuse.

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe it these vets are not at fault in any way and cannot be held accountable.

 

[Use of Time]

I believe it these vets are not at fault in any way and cannot be held accountable.

That is a very irresponsible and reckless line of thinking.

Regardless, I have often seen failure in the military's leadership in identifying this as well. I have run across countless cases of Soldiers coming home with issues and continuing on with multiple deployments after that compounding the issue and putting their subsequent units in bad positions in theatre dealing with these issues.

 

[TCassidy]

I first served 50 years ago. And I still wake up in a cold sweat after terrible night mares. But in my entire life I have never struck a woman. Not only have a never struck a woman, I have never raised my voice to my wife, nor her's to me. Blaming drunken domestic violence on PTSD is despicable. It sullies the reputations of all those who struggle to re-integrate into civilian society.

 

[Use of Time]

Exactly Tom. There is already something of a stigma regarding veterans and their temperament when trying to reintegrate into society and the workforce. Excusing stuff like this and just chalking it up to PTSD does nothing to help this stigma.

 

[JonC]

Exactly Tom. There is already something of a stigma regarding veterans and their temperament when trying to reintegrate into society and the workforce. Excusing stuff like this and just chalking it up to PTSD does nothing to help this stigma.

Another issue is the logic of excusing inappropriate and dangerous behavior based on such external factors or even the ability to control ones actions when voluntarily intoxication is involved . Imagine this conversation taking place under different circumstances. As a teenager Mike did not know how to deal with the death of his parents. Social services as well as Mike's friends and family neglected to adequately identify Mike's inability to cope with this loss, therefore they and not Mike are responsible for his turning to alcohol as an ineffective coping mechanism. Not only that, but the family that Mike killed last week while he was driving drunk are victims of a tragedy which really was not Mike's fault. He couldn't control himself, he certainly did not intend to kill anyone, so therefore he should not be held accountable for his actions.

 

[Revmitchell]

Comparing apples and refrigerators

 

[JonC]

Comparing apples and refrigerators

How so?

 

[Use of Time]

How so?

The analogy is fine, he is just digging his heels in here.