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Question On Open Theism views

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    [A member} stated in a prior posting
    The foreknowledge of God is knowledge God acquired or formulated in the past.
    As regards to salvation, how can your view not be seen as Open theism?
     
    #1 Yeshua1, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2017
  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    It IS open theism. Or process theism, which smells just as putrid.
     
    #2 SovereignGrace, Sep 7, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It is the same mode of divine knowledge (God looks through the corridors time; a pre-knowledge of the outcome of events). But it is not Open Theism (which views contingent events as unknowable to God and therefore outside the sphere of omniscience).
     
    #3 JonC, Sep 7, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    But that is not what he said. He said "knowledge God acquired." Before acquiring the knowledge there was something He didn't know so was, at that time NOT Omniscient and therefore NOT God.
     
    #4 TCassidy, Sep 7, 2017
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as he seemed to be stating pretty clearly here that God had to learn something new in the process!
     
    #5 Yeshua1, Sep 7, 2017
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He seemed to be going beyond foreknowledge viewpoint, to a position that literally God would not know that we are saved until we decide to get saved!
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Sep 7, 2017
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    As soon as I read the OP and how you brethren responded, this verse pop into my head among others... Brother Glen:)

    Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

    46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

    Or this one!

    Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

    11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?
     
    #7 tyndale1946, Sep 7, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The idea God does not know something until it happens is Open Theism (that the events unfold with God experiencing contingent events as they occur). I suppose if this is what the OP is speaking of, then I'd agree (I don't know the conversation being referenced).
     
    #8 JonC, Sep 7, 2017
  9. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    It's the classic proof text quoted against Open Theism, but it actually does not address the issue:


    "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done..." does not necessarily have anything to do with knowledge. Open Theists believe that God is at work and has determined what the "end" will be at the "Day of the Lord." So free will is no barrier to God acting and managing the context of our actions to bring about the final result - even if the details of events between now and that time are not things capable of being known with certainty (in other words, they are not yet knowledge) until they occur.


    And this just demonstrates that the above interpretation is correct. This is about God speaking and acting - describing what He intends and then doing it. This is not describing foreknowledge - except knowledge of what God intends to do.

    I don't think an Open Theist would interpret this any differently than anyone else. It is certainly not evidence against Open Theism.
     
    #9 Baptist Believer, Sep 17, 2017
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